All Blacks vs Springboks II
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@nta said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
DISCLAIMER: have only watched the game once
I thought i was a cracker, particuarly the first half.@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
How is it the Wallabies can put the Boks to the sword?
Well you can talk about the Boks "lifting" for the ABs
I guess, as a few others have done.I think first in favour of the Boks it was selection: they've played mostly the same players all tour, particularly the spine of the side, and they finally clicked in terms of lowering their error rate - that's the first key in beating the ABs. By contrast, the ABs are missing a few of their best and that hurts them in the pivot - Aaron Smith probably adds 5% to any team he's playing in.
Second point was Kwagga Smith. That guy changed the dynamic of the back row battle significantly, and gave the Boks a ruck presence they didn't have against the Wallabies. They learned from having the 2 Pommy refs against us that they needed more at ruck time in addition to Kolisi. Kwagga was MOTM for me in both games. Against us, the Boks played Mostert instead, and tried to out-do us physically, but that didn't happen because their fitness led to poor discipline.
But it must be said the main difference is game plan. Someone said on Twitter last night that the Trinations were a bit of rock/paper/scissors and to a degree, that's true.
ABs haven't changed in several years - the aim of the game is being fitter than everyone, and racking up turnover runaway tries. "You miss I hit" being the basic premise.
From where I'm sitting, they are not actually creating much except opposition mistakes to run at a fractured line, and fitness to keep doing that all game. Once the turnovers dry up, or you get the ball against a set line with a high percentage tackle success, things get sticky.
When this happens, the AB back line doesn't appear to run anything like a complex move or any subtletly with bodies in motion. They just expect something to happen.
The Boks kick it, the ABs run it back against a set line, with a structure you'd basically teach to juniors - space out, run straight, support each other at the ruck. Rarely any changes of angle or dummy runners. I can't even remember a decent cut-out pass that found the man because the Boks were just rushing it so easily.
If you're going to run wide, run from depth. So many times it appeared an AB player got the ball with little chance to run onto it at pace and make a directional change at the same time. In the first Boks v Wallabies, Kellaways' try came because FdK rushed a deeply-set Kerevi and he shifted subtly to avoid it - suddenly there is space, and that was the 5th phase after the lineout.
So you could say the Boks have the right game plan for the ABs.
The Wallabies have the right game plan for the Boks.
The ABs have the right game plan for the Wallabies.
Excellent post, @nta. To illustrate, Boks knew ABs wanted to win by scoring tries so lined up across the park. No obvious gaps (and very mediocre AB Backline alignment). But if BB has heads up acres of grass in behind.
Meanwhile, Ardie spent two minutes on extreme touchline (out of sight) whilst we got agressively counter rucked in centre of field.
From where Iām sitting a chip over the top would have been the smart play? -
@taniwharugby what that picture does show is how slow the ball was , plenty of time for the defence to reset.
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@steven-harris Aaron Smith would have known where he was wanting the next 2 phases to go so when he arrived he shifts the ball for the next phase before they can reorganise, if we don't breach the line we wun a penalty.
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@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Meanwhile, Ardie spent two minutes on extreme touchline (out of sight) whilst we got agressively counter rucked in centre of field.
From where Iām sitting a chip over the top would have been the smart play?Could have been that or a grubber for players to run onto. Either way there's nothing to hold up the rush defence, and no reason for the Boks to play a fullback in that space if they know the ABs are never kicking it.
I just booted up Stan to have a look at that exact moment - there are 2 ABs on the ground (ball carrier and assist), 2 Boks on the ground, Laulala standing there doing nothing, and Weber. Already you're 2 men down. The Boks have numbers there to match because Savea is still hands on knees on the wing - and very deep.
BB gets the ball but hesitates under the rush - he's got nowhere to run or pass, so should have takent the contact or nudged it through.
The subsequent ruck is a mess, but Weber recovers. Then Kolisi pushes BB and Jacobson clear off the ball at the ruck forming over Weber, and Retallick is forced to toe it through as it squirts out.
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@steven-harris said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@taniwharugby what that picture does show is how slow the ball was , plenty of time for the defence to reset.
It was about the same speed as the ones leading up to it - on or just under 2 seconds from the player hitting the deck to the ball leaving the halfback's hands. A touch longer. The issue is you're doing nothing with the ball you've got, so going faster isn't going to achieve much.
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Reason raised an excellent point in his article today. When Aumua was instructed to fake his injury before the last scrum, it resulted in the ref stopping the clock until both scrums were set. Had Aumua not done that that, a further 20-30 seconds would have ticked on before the scrum would have been completed and we possibly would have only needed one more ruck before booting it out. Dumb play.
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@akan004 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Reason raised an excellent point in his article today. When Aumua was instructed to fake his injury before the last scrum, it resulted in the ref stopping the clock until both scrums were set. Had Aumua not done that that, a further 20-30 seconds would have ticked on before the scrum would have been completed and we possibly would have only needed one more ruck before booting it out. Dumb play.
Yes read his article this time he is correct on most of his article.A few well made points in it.
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@chris said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@akan004 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Reason raised an excellent point in his article today. When Aumua was instructed to fake his injury before the last scrum, it resulted in the ref stopping the clock until both scrums were set. Had Aumua not done that that, a further 20-30 seconds would have ticked on before the scrum would have been completed and we possibly would have only needed one more ruck before booting it out. Dumb play.
Yes read his article this time he is correct on most of his article.A few well made points in it.
Monkeys and typewriters and all that.
It does surprise that every now and then he can stop being a shit stirrer and actually write a good piece. -
@chris said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@akan004 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Reason raised an excellent point in his article today. When Aumua was instructed to fake his injury before the last scrum, it resulted in the ref stopping the clock until both scrums were set. Had Aumua not done that that, a further 20-30 seconds would have ticked on before the scrum would have been completed and we possibly would have only needed one more ruck before booting it out. Dumb play.
Yes read his article this time he is correct on most of his article.A few well made points in it.
Surprised me too. Hardly a touch of bitterness* and even just the one I watch other sports and good coaches do too comment.
*He's probably in love. Poor bugger. -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@akan004 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Reason raised an excellent point in his article today. When Aumua was instructed to fake his injury before the last scrum, it resulted in the ref stopping the clock until both scrums were set. Had Aumua not done that that, a further 20-30 seconds would have ticked on before the scrum would have been completed and we possibly would have only needed one more ruck before booting it out. Dumb play.
Yes read his article this time he is correct on most of his article.A few well made points in it.
Surprised me too. Hardly a touch of bitterness* and even just the one I watch other sports and good coaches do too comment.
*He's probably in love. Poor bugger.HaHa or poor women or man.
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@nta said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Meanwhile, Ardie spent two minutes on extreme touchline (out of sight) whilst we got agressively counter rucked in centre of field.
From where Iām sitting a chip over the top would have been the smart play?Could have been that or a grubber for players to run onto. Either way there's nothing to hold up the rush defence, and no reason for the Boks to play a fullback in that space if they know the ABs are never kicking it.
I just booted up Stan to have a look at that exact moment - there are 2 ABs on the ground (ball carrier and assist), 2 Boks on the ground, Laulala standing there doing nothing, and Weber. Already you're 2 men down. The Boks have numbers there to match because Savea is still hands on knees on the wing - and very deep. BB gets the ball but hesitates under the rush - he's got nowhere to run or pass, so should have takent the contact or nudged it through.
The subsequent ruck is a mess, but Weber recovers. Then Kolisi pushes BB and Jacobson clear off the ball at the ruck forming over Weber, and Retallick is forced to toe it through as it squirts out.
To be fair there is some very good work before and Q4 on blind, with holes found and good cleans.
But in centre of park in broken play AB forwards spread out and meant no one hitting ball from depth, cleaners having to run across before hitting rucks, and backs sometimes having to do the cleaning. Very static and absolutely no momentum.
Whereas running through onto grubber (not much space to thread through), targets, faster ball and hopefully multi phases.
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@bones is somethign a few 9s have been getting away with a bit more...plus not even pretending to put the ball down the middle....
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@bones is somethign a few 9s have been getting away with a bit more...plus not even pretending to put the ball down the middle....
It's quite frustrating to watch every other team but us do it - spending 30 seconds fucking around rolling the ball to exactly where you want it, by hand or foot....maybe another 30 seconds if you want to box kick. Why don't we do this?
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@oompb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@akan004 is he saying the All Blacks were instructed to slow the game down? The week leading up to the test it was a mayor moan about the Springboks.
Shhhhhhhhh........You must have realized by now that a lot of shit is talked over here and we only moan when it affects our team.
