All Blacks vs Springboks II
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@sidbarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@billy-webb correct.
The way Vermeulen is playing he stick around as long as he wants, but I think Roos is the clear successor at this point. Is he the finished article and will he be as good as peak Duane? No and hopefully - but I think is ready and can be fantastic player in his own right.
I don't like the Jasper Wiese selection - I am biased cause I don't like player debuting from overseas, but I haven't seen anything to suggest he is a long-term prospect, he is inaccurate and has bad discipline. It feels like a player where the coaches saw something that got them super hyped and now they continue to select him to justify his original selection.
Isn't Roos going overseas? Or is he sticking it out here?
Anyway, some lucky fan got Siya's boot's
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@sidbarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@billy-webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
A couple of arbitrary observations from this Saffa:
Been reading some of the comments about the AB lineout... I don't think it struggled nearly as much as some of you seemed to think. I guess what hurt was losing one or two crucial ones, but don't forget the one you nicked off us for Webber's try.
And there was another that we fucked up hot on attack, which after two errors by Willie lead to Savea's try
Also saw some comments on Ardi Savea's captaincy. Lukhanyo Am is fast establishing himself as one of our best ever 13's to join the ranks of some illustrious predecessors like Danie Gerber and Jacques Fourie. His defence-organization is supreme, and he really is the creative force of our backline.
I am Am's biggest fan but there is still quite a lot of improvement required with his attacking play. For every piece of play like Saturday there is still a ball dropped cold like is Aus 1.
The biggest point of discussion from a SA point of view is probably Willie Le Roux - he was dreadful and it has been a very long time since he has added enough in the plus column to balance out games like Saturday.
The dropped ball by Am in Aus 1 might have been one of the few errors I have seen by him in a couple of years. His strength seems to be that in the rare occasions he touches the ball super soft hands and quick thinking. Seems the opposite from DeAllende with whom you are guaranteed that the ball will not go past him unless its a skip move.
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@dmx said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Seems the opposite from DeAllende with whom you are guaranteed that the ball will not go past him unless its a skip move.
Sadly that's true too often.
And I say sadly, because de Allende actually has (had) excellent ability to offload and put a supporting player in space. Just seems like it is not the game plan anymore.... -
Someone mentioned it earlier about not being able to find where the ABS were offside in the last ruck.
I looked over the highlights and from the maul we were onside. the next ruck in front of the posts, Janties goes to pass the ball from the ruck and pulls back on the pass (like a dummy pass), the ABs rush up, he then passes and the ref sticks his arm out.
I don't believe that type of 'dummy pass' from a ruck is a legal play anymore?
can anyone confirm?
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Frans Steyn was outstanding when he came in. The ABs could not cope with his long range kicking. He kept the ABs in their own territory for most of the second half as BB and RM do not kick well from hand. Their clearances were invariably short and could not relieve the pressure. Daniel Carter was far superior to both of them in that respect, unfortunately.
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@dagrubster said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Someone mentioned it earlier about not being able to find where the ABS were offside in the last ruck.
I looked over the highlights and from the maul we were onside. the next ruck in front of the posts, Janties goes to pass the ball from the ruck and pulls back on the pass (like a dummy pass), the ABs rush up, he then passes and the ref sticks his arm out.
I don't believe that type of 'dummy pass' from a ruck is a legal play anymore?
can anyone confirm?
Baulking from the base is illegal but I thought Jantjies picked and then double pumped. Which I'd say is not illegal.
But then I don't think Tu'ungafasi was offside at the time Jantjies picked either. If he was it was very marginal. Certainly not deserving of the match winning penalty but whatever.
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I thought the Boks were fantastic on Saturday and worthy winners.
It was an epic match and by far the best game this year.
I must admit, I didn't think the boks were capable of that performance based on how they have played this year. That performance was one of their best in 4 years and on a par with how they played in the RWC final.
The ABs will be disappointed with parts of their game and we were 2nd best in the tight and at set piece.
It is how people expected us to struggle against the Boks and it was confirmed as the major problem for us.
Its very clear what parts of our game need to improve and the players now know the standard they need to bring against a Boks side on top of their game.
Great experience and lesson for us. we have made some great progress this year but still have steps to take if we want to seriously challenge for the RWC.
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@dagrubster said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I thought the Boks were fantastic on Saturday and worthy winners.
It was an epic match and by far the best game this year.
I must admit, I didn't think the boks were capable of that performance based on how they have played this year. That performance was one of their best in 4 years and on a par with how they played in the RWC final.
The ABs will be disappointed with parts of their game and we were 2nd best in the tight and at set piece.
It is how people expected us to struggle against the Boks and it was confirmed as the major problem for us.
Its very clear what parts of our game need to improve and the players now know the standard they need to bring against a Boks side on top of their game.
Great experience and lesson for us. we have made some great progress this year but still have steps to take if we want to seriously challenge for the RWC.
Great game, but the set piece was even. Boks lost three lineouts. BB ahead of EE 5m out, overthrow under pressure at 5 from BBBR and Vermuelen dropped ball under pressure at 48. Boks also won 3, including Aumua screw up on 5m.
Big Boks scrum at 72.20 when Ofa didn't set up square on hit, after ABs had forced maul turnover off Mostert. But previous scrum at 69:45 Marx twisted and dropped to turf with Duane having to rescue disintegrating scrum.
Mauls pretty even.
Boks had lots of things go their way, but read play better than ABs. Exploited turnovers well and run rather than kicked when ABs were holding back in anticipation.
Against that, BB in particular missed huge space behind Boks when they had 14 in defensive line.
Kudos.
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@billy-webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@dmx said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Seems the opposite from DeAllende with whom you are guaranteed that the ball will not go past him unless its a skip move.
Sadly that's true too often.
And I say sadly, because de Allende actually has (had) excellent ability to offload and put a supporting player in space. Just seems like it is not the game plan anymore....Stats are the DA only passes on one side.
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agreed, it is a 'whatever' moment, no point moaning about it as you only look like sore losers!.
I think the reason Janties didn't pass was because his target for the pass ran into another bok and then fell over.
What do you mean by 'double pumped'?
How is it different from a 'dummy pass'? he picked it up from the ruck as he started his passing movement...
the dummy or double pump movement was the reason for our defensive line to be considered offside.
cheers
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@dagrubster said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I thought the Boks were fantastic on Saturday and worthy winners.
It was an epic match and by far the best game this year.
I must admit, I didn't think the boks were capable of that performance based on how they have played this year. That performance was one of their best in 4 years and on a par with how they played in the RWC final.
The ABs will be disappointed with parts of their game and we were 2nd best in the tight and at set piece.
It is how people expected us to struggle against the Boks and it was confirmed as the major problem for us.
Its very clear what parts of our game need to improve and the players now know the standard they need to bring against a Boks side on top of their game.
Great experience and lesson for us. we have made some great progress this year but still have steps to take if we want to seriously challenge for the RWC.
Good post. Sums up my feelings exactly.
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@dagrubster said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
agreed, it is a 'whatever' moment, no point moaning about it as you only look like sore losers!.
I think the reason Janties didn't pass was because his target for the pass ran into another bok and then fell over.
What do you mean by 'double pumped'?
How is it different from a 'dummy pass'? he picked it up from the ruck as he started his passing movement...
the dummy or double pump movement was the reason for our defensive line to be considered offside.
cheers
The traditional dummy from a ruck was the halfback throwing his hands without the ball leaving the ground. I'd have to watch again but I did notice the delay when watching live. I'm not sure if a double-pump is 'legal'. If it is, then it will be used a lot more in these situations because the defence is on a hair trigger and will come offside.
I thought we were offside from the previous phase myself.
The ref had his back to the ruck and the pass delay was subtle so hard to blame him but he was also on a hair trigger at that stage. -
The relevant law after they were simplified.
A player must not......Take any action to make opponents believe that the ruck has ended when it has not.
And in this instance....The ruck ends and play continues when the ball leaves the ruck or when the ball in the ruck is on or over the goal line.
The ball 'left the ruck' when he picked it up. A double-pump is legal but the defence was also entitled to break forward the moment he picked it up.
I'll look at a clip to be sure but I think it may have been clever play with a very slight but obvious feint while the ball was on the ground still. It was more a move of the head and shoulders without actually lifting and passing.
'Illegal' but unlikely to be picked up in real time.NB: as a side issue I watched the Bristol v Bath game the other day and they must be running on very different protocols for the TMO. This is the type of thing that the TMO was chipping in on all the time. Not necessarily interfering or second guessing the ref but letting him know things that he wouldn't have spotted on the ground. It actually seemed to work quite well. The TMO was virtually reffing from his different viewpoint and calling out blatant or game affecting things that the onfield ref didn't/couldn't see. They worked quite well together and the game wasn't noticeably slowed down.
