All Blacks vs Springboks II
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@billy-webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
A couple of arbitrary observations from this Saffa:
Been reading some of the comments about the AB lineout... I don't think it struggled nearly as much as some of you seemed to think. I guess what hurt was losing one or two crucial ones, but don't forget the one you nicked off us for Webber's try.
And there was another that we fucked up hot on attack, which after two errors by Willie lead to Savea's try
Also saw some comments on Ardi Savea's captaincy. Lukhanyo Am is fast establishing himself as one of our best ever 13's to join the ranks of some illustrious predecessors like Danie Gerber and Jacques Fourie. His defence-organization is supreme, and he really is the creative force of our backline.
I am Am's biggest fan but there is still quite a lot of improvement required with his attacking play. For every piece of play like Saturday there is still a ball dropped cold like is Aus 1.
The biggest point of discussion from a SA point of view is probably Willie Le Roux - he was dreadful and it has been a very long time since he has added enough in the plus column to balance out games like Saturday.
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@sidbarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
The biggest point of discussion from a SA point of view is probably Willie Le Roux - he was dreadful and it has been a very long time since he has added enough in the plus column to balance out games like Saturday.
Imagine if him and BB were in the same team on Saturday....yuuuuuck.
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@sidbarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@nta Jesus - Kwagga was fine on Saturday (say 7.5/10), but PSdT has been churning out consistent 8s and 9s for the Boks and would be the first man picked if available.
Yes but that was 2 years ago and I understand he's a great player BUT you didn't answer the question
Who do you replace?I'm of the opinion if Kwagga Smith started against the Wallabies, the Boks win that first game and do much better in the second.
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@bones there is clear difference though, does Reece and Savea score without BB on the weekend? They don't without Willie fucking up multiple times in the buildup.
The thing is Willie isn't putting anything in plus column which is almost worse than the negatives.
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@sidbarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@nta he starts at 7.
PSdT was great in the lion's series before injury.
Hardly what you'd call "rugby" tho
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@sidbarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@bones there is clear difference though, does Reece and Savea score without BB on the weekend? They don't without Willie fucking up multiple times in the buildup.
The thing is Willie isn't putting anything in plus column which is almost worse than the negatives.
Le Roux has been pretty ordinary the last few games. Spends a lot of time complaining so maybe a move to scrum half is on the cards?
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@billy-webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
A couple of arbitrary observations from this Saffa:
A much better game to watch this week.
Obviously nice for me that the rugby gods chose to smile on the Boks this time around - but this game was ball-hair close again. 3 of them on this tour so it was about time we came out on the rights ide of thingsBeen reading some of the comments about the AB lineout... I don't think it struggled nearly as much as some of you seemed to think. I guess what hurt was losing one or two crucial ones, but don't forget the one you nicked off us for Webber's try.
Also saw some comments on Ardi Savea's captaincy. Can't say I was paying too much attention to it, so won't comment on that, but lordy he is playing some sublime rugby though!
And Jordy Barrett... never really rated him before, but I have to revise that view now. And he has some serious BMT when it comes to those clutch-moment penalties.
On the Bok side I thought Kwagga Smith played well, Duane Vermeulen is an absolute machine, and Lukhanyo Am is fast establishing himself as one of our best ever 13's to join the ranks of some illustrious predecessors like Danie Gerber and Jacques Fourie. His defence-organization is supreme, and he really is the creative force of our backline.
All-in-all a test match worthy of the proud rivalry between the AB's and Boks.
…all while chewing gum non-stop. Am is da man!
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@nta said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@billy-webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
PSdT is a great player and we do miss him though.
Agreed - awesome player and would help any team
BUT
Where does he play in that team?
Kwagga was great. Kolisi's the captain. Both your locks know their trade. Vermeulen is one of my favourite players at 8.
That is a good question NTA.
Would change the balance and game plan a bit - on the assumption of it being a straight shoot-out with Kwagga.
Could be a horses-for-course kind of approach maybe. But assuming form is equal, my expectation would be PSdT gets to start and Kwagga would shift to the bench.
Very different players bringing different things - you may find that the sub is for Kolisi - not PSdT. -
@nta said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@sidbarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@bones there is clear difference though, does Reece and Savea score without BB on the weekend? They don't without Willie fucking up multiple times in the buildup.
The thing is Willie isn't putting anything in plus column which is almost worse than the negatives.
Le Roux has been pretty ordinary the last few games. Spends a lot of time complaining so maybe a move to scrum half is on the cards?
I think the assists stats show he's been involved in quite a few tries.
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@nta said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@billy-webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
PSdT is a great player and we do miss him though.
Agreed - awesome player and would help any team
BUT
Where does he play in that team?
Kwagga was great. Kolisi's the captain. Both your locks know their trade. Vermeulen is one of my favourite players at 8.
On pure rugby it would be Kolisi. But more than just a player to team.
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@pakman though haven't seen the stats, it wouldn't surprise me if he leads the Boks in assists - but that is more a function of his role than him being a great creator. He plays the role of playmaker in the wide channels and has more touches in try scoring positions than the rest of the backline.
The challenge for the Boks is that none of the other options are suited to that role - Fassi is great strike runner, but not much of a ball player, Steyn is too slow and Willemse hasn't figured out how to be playmaker at either fly-half or fullback.
To make matters worse - Pollard is not playing well at the moment either and not getting the backline moving forward or getting depth right.
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@sidbarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I am Am's biggest fan but there is still quite a lot of improvement required with his attacking play. For every piece of play like Saturday there is still a ball dropped cold like is Aus 1.
The biggest point of discussion from a SA point of view is probably Willie Le Roux - he was dreadful and it has been a very long time since he has added enough in the plus column to balance out games like Saturday.
I think you judge Am a bit harshly there Sid. Sure, he can still improve and I hope he continues to do so, but he's up there already imo.
As for Willie... I am a massive fan. He brings an X-factor and a vision to our play that we absolutely need.
Unfortunately, sometimes the sublime goes together with the ridiculously awful. And here we agree - his plus column is far outweighed by the negative of late.I'd keep him in the squad though. His form will return.
Maybe he takes a break or swaps with Frans Steyn for the impact role. Maybe he is just part of the broader squad to help bring a talent like Aphelele Fassi through the ranks.But I wouldn't discard Willie just yet.
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@billy-webb I know I am being harsh on Am and I agree he is absolute miles ahead of any other option we have, because, you know, he fucken good - but it feels to me there are still too many random unforced errors in his game. I am confident that he will improve.
As for Willie - I've lost faith that he will ever again consistently contribute in winning us games. He is getting on in years now and I would like us to start bringing in some younger players while we still have a pretty settled lineup. I don't want us to go through a period like 2014 - 2017 where have to blood players en mass because we failed to bring players in when we had the chance.
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@sidbarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
As for Willie - I've lost faith that he will ever again consistently contribute in winning us games. He is getting on in years now and I would like us to start bringing in some younger players while we still have a pretty settled lineup. I don't want us to go through a period like 2014 - 2017 where have to blood players en mass because we failed to bring players in when we had the chance.
You're not alone in having lost faith in Willie. I think I am well in the minority in believing he will find some decent form
100% agree with you in terms of making sure we consistently bring youngsters through. My biggest concern is not fullback though, but rather flyhalf and no. 8.
He did really well on Saturday, but if Elton is the next best thing to Pollard at 10, then we are in trouble. Damien Willemse does not convince me - yet.
And who replaces diesel Duane? Jasper Wiese is very limited imo. And looking across the ranks of Saffa no.8's I just don't see any outstanding prospects. And Duane has been going for so long, it must surely be nearing the end of the road for him? -
@billy-webb said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@sidbarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
As for Willie - I've lost faith that he will ever again consistently contribute in winning us games. He is getting on in years now and I would like us to start bringing in some younger players while we still have a pretty settled lineup. I don't want us to go through a period like 2014 - 2017 where have to blood players en mass because we failed to bring players in when we had the chance.
You're not alone in having lost faith in Willie. I think I am well in the minority in believing he will find some decent form
100% agree with you in terms of making sure we consistently bring youngsters through. My biggest concern is not fullback though, but rather flyhalf and no. 8.
He did really well on Saturday, but if Elton is the next best thing to Pollard at 10, then we are in trouble. Damien Willemse does not convince me - yet.
And who replaces diesel Duane? Jasper Wiese is very limited imo. And looking across the ranks of Saffa no.8's I just don't see any outstanding prospects. And Duane has been going for so long, it must surely be nearing the end of the road for him?If only there was 21 year old ripping it up all year in a pretty shitty team
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@sidbarret
Photo not showing for me but I am guessing you refer to Evan Roos?I concede - maybe I am being a tad pessimistic.
He looks promising - but some way to go still. Duane would need to hang on for another year or two... -
@billy-webb correct.
The way Vermeulen is playing he stick around as long as he wants, but I think Roos is the clear successor at this point. Is he the finished article and will he be as good as peak Duane? No and hopefully - but I think is ready and can be fantastic player in his own right.
I don't like the Jasper Wiese selection - I am biased cause I don't like player debuting from overseas, but I haven't seen anything to suggest he is a long-term prospect, he is inaccurate and has bad discipline. It feels like a player where the coaches saw something that got them super hyped and now they continue to select him to justify his original selection.
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@sidbarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@billy-webb correct.
The way Vermeulen is playing he stick around as long as he wants, but I think Roos is the clear successor at this point. Is he the finished article and will he be as good as peak Duane? No and hopefully - but I think is ready and can be fantastic player in his own right.
I don't like the Jasper Wiese selection - I am biased cause I don't like player debuting from overseas, but I haven't seen anything to suggest he is a long-term prospect, he is inaccurate and has bad discipline. It feels like a player where the coaches saw something that got them super hyped and now they continue to select him to justify his original selection.
Isn't Roos going overseas? Or is he sticking it out here?
Anyway, some lucky fan got Siya's boot's
