Hillsborough
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South Yorkshire Police acted in a manner they were accustomed to before (Orgreave) and since (Rotherham Abuse Scandal). There were plenty of dangerous stadia in England at the time, without a tragedy like this. The cover up afterwards was insidious.<br><br>
The fan behaviour line gets trotted out all the time by those with seemingly little grasp of crowd dynamics. -
I'm fully aware of English football hooliganism thanks.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Richie8-7" data-cid="577386" data-time="1462515315">
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<p>And why do you think police at Hillsborough did not trust the behaviour of Liverpool fans?</p>
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<p>Do you think it's possible they had a pattern of charging gates without tickets? And charging opposition fans (causing death at Heysel)?</p>
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<p>None of the 96 deserved to die. Have said that a few times now. But it is massively constipated thinking to look at Hillsborough as a completely independent event.</p>
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<p>A common trait, especially from those who have limited understanding of English football in the 80s.</p>
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<p>As a recollection, Liverpool fans in the 80's were not excessively involved in rampant hooliganism. The Heysel disaster was a stand out of course but there are two elements in that that need to be taken into account. Firstly most of Liverpool's hooligan issues were on away trips in Europe. The pattern you allude to was mostly opportunistic travelling hooligans that were not usually evident away from such games. Secondly although it was the Liverpool fans that pulled down the fences at Heysel, this was because they were getting crushed in a very small area where too many had been crammed in. The tearing down of the fences triggered the fighting between the fans which in turn led to a wall collapsing in the dilapidated stadium. Whilst it is true to say the behaviour of the fans contributed to the tragedy the common link between here and Hillsborough is two-fold. A poorly maintained, out of date stadium and poor crowd control/policing.</p>
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<p>It is true that English football in the 80s had a God awful rep for hooliganism but this was not as widespread as one might think. The incidents were very bad but also quite random. It appeared that much of the problem was being caused by trailing "fans" that did not actually actively support "their club". One of the worst reps was held by Milwall FC and there were several instances of horrific hooliganism. Mostly at away matches and mostly where the travelling support was actually higher than the average at home games. </p>
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<p>So if the South Yorkshire Police were acting due to a pattern of behaviour in Liverpool fans, then they were looking at the wrong bloody pattern.</p> -
<p>Margin_Walker what you're not aware of is Richie8-7 is obviously the resident expert on soccer hooliganism during the 1980s and specifically Liverpool's history. After all based on your <strike>numerous posts</strike> <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/index.php/topic/41976-hillsborough/page-3#entry577394'>one post</a> you're clearly ignorant despite pointing out what the jury found after two years of hearing evidence.</p>
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He's busy making a dick of himself on a couple of threads
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="577429" data-time="1462522134">
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<p>He's busy making a dick of himself on a couple of threads</p>
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<p>I was assuming that kind of behaviour would suggest he was drunk , but its only about 5:30 in Melbourne isn't it?</p> -
What's wrong with that?
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="577417" data-time="1462521145">
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<p>As a recollection, Liverpool fans in the 80's were not excessively involved in rampant hooliganism.</p>
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<p>You lost me there. </p>
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<p>Did you know the park next to Anfield was referred to as Stanley Knife Park? Did you know they targeted black members of the opposing firm, stripped them and beat them?</p>
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<p>Yeah, not hooligans at all.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="577434" data-time="1462523470">
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<p>I was assuming that kind of behaviour would suggest he was drunk , but its only about 5:30 in Melbourne isn't it?</p>
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<p>Yep, the sort of response I expect when it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="577440" data-time="1462523922">
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<p>What's wrong with that?</p>
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<p>Not much I guess except when you start posting drivel , I'll revisit this thread when he's at the "your my best mate" stage, he might be mildly amusing by then.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Richie8-7" data-cid="577444" data-time="1462524054">
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<p>You lost me there. </p>
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<p>Did you know the park next to Anfield was referred to as Stanley Knife Park? Did you know they targeted black members of the opposing firm, stripped them and beat them?</p>
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<p>Yeah, not hooligans at all.</p>
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<p>There are many anecdotal incidences that can be brought out that actually prove nothing. The alledged targeting of black people does not surprise me. It was Britain in the 1980s, racism was everywhere, as was sensationalism. Any such action was not confined to Liverpool supporters in any event. I notice though that you do not address my actual points which were that Liverpool are not overly known for their hooliganism and that much of it was perpetrated by travelling fans in Europe. Have a look at any major incidents involving Liverpool fans in the 1980s and then come back and tell me I'm wrong. If so I will gladly eat humble pie.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="577456" data-time="1462525190">
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<p>There are many anecdotal incidences that can be brought out that actually prove nothing. The alledged targeting of black people does not surprise me. It was Britain in the 1980s, racism was everywhere, as was sensationalism. Any such action was not confined to Liverpool supporters in any event. I notice though that you do not address my actual points which were that Liverpool are not overly known for their hooliganism and that much of it was perpetrated by travelling fans in Europe. Have a look at any major incidents involving Liverpool fans in the 1980s and then come back and tell me I'm wrong. If so I will gladly eat humble pie.</p>
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<p>Are you actually serious?</p>
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<p>Do you know why English clubs were banned from Europe? Hint: Liverpool</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Richie8-7" data-cid="577459" data-time="1462525301">
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<p>Are you actually serious?</p>
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<p>Do you know why English clubs were banned from Europe? Hint: Liverpool</p>
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<p>doesnt that back up his pooint that it was their travelling fans more so than those at home?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="577462" data-time="1462525386">
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<p>doesnt that back up his pooint that it was their travelling fans more so than those at home?</p>
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<p>What? Is that Scouser English?</p>
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<p>It backs up the point that it was Liverpool fans.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Richie8-7" data-cid="577459" data-time="1462525301">
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<p>Are you actually serious?</p>
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<p>Do you know why English clubs were banned from Europe? Hint: Liverpool</p>
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<p>One wonders if you're trolling. If it was just Liverpool that was the problem, then they'd be the only team banned from Europe. Even a learning disabled child would understand that.</p>
