Springboks v British & Irish Lions I
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60-70 Three fairly average decisions in 10. de Klerk kick caught in play by Kolbe, but ruled out on full. Then line out penalty kicked. If lineout in correct position would have been too far out.
Watson > 90 degrees. Pollard misses.
Scrum penalty against Boks around 69 for ‘walking around’. Looked more to me that Sinckler backed off and AWJ/Itoje pushed on angle causing scrum to pivot. Malherbe went forward. Relieved a period of pressure by Boks.
Lions shouldn’t have been ahead at 70. -
70-80. De Allande try was inches from being legit. Sheer luck.
Lions Maul gives rise to fair penalty. Came after three dropped balls by Boks, losing 30m each time.
Five points too much to claw back.
Lions box kicking in second half won that for them, hence Lions 47% of time between Bok 22 and halfway.
But at least three dubious reffing decisions led to six dodgy points and playing last 10 with 15, when 14 was justified.
Neither side showed much attacking skill, albeit Boks very dangerous in broken play.
Better to be lucky than skillful! -
@bones said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
Scrum penalty against Boks around 69 for ‘walking around’.
Stop it
Aussies don’t like that sort of play!
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@pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@bones said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
Scrum penalty against Boks around 69 for ‘walking around’.
Stop it
Aussies don’t like that sort of play!
Walking the 69 around is absolutely showing off.
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Just watched the second half again.
More @pakman commentary.
There is period from about 55 to 65 where the Springboks just got zero luck. It starts with the penalty against Kwagga for the strip. Not wrong, but just so close to a great play.
Then from the kickoff there's a box kick, which looks (in my biased opinion) to go forward off VDM, but not called. A little later there is a knock on called from a kick that is then played by a player in front but not called. Faf kicks the ball out on the full, but Kolbe is able regather and get a foot in play. But the refs miss it so the Lions get get a line out that they mauled for a penalty that is now in range.
Shortly thereafter Watson is very lucky to stay on after tips tackles Le Roux.
I don't mean that we got screwed by the ref, and I still think Berry is the best ref we'll have in this series, but sometimes you need a bit of luck to go your way. These types of close calls going against you compounds into pressure especially if they follow so closely on each other.
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@sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
Just watched the second half again.
More @pakman commentary.
There is period from about 55 to 65 where the Springboks just got zero luck. It starts with the penalty against Kwagga for the strip. Not wrong, but just so close to a great play.
Then from the kickoff there's a box kick, which looks (in my biased opinion) to go forward off VDM, but not called. A little later there is a knock on called from a kick that is then played by a player in front but not called. Faf kicks the ball out on the full, but Kolbe is able regather and get a foot in play. But the refs miss it so the Lions get get a line out that they mauled for a penalty that is now in range.
Shortly thereafter Watson is very lucky to stay on after tips tackles Le Roux.
I don't mean that we got screwed by the ref, and I still think Berry is the best ref we'll have in this series, but sometimes you need a bit of luck to go your way. These types of close calls going against you compounds into pressure especially if they follow so closely on each other.
Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!
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Tactically South Africa needs to find a way to generate go forward off static ball especially around their own ten meter line. The box kick is fine, but you can't always kick to set defendses.
There were also at least two scrum advantages where we used low percentage kicks instead of setting up attacks.
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Yeah mate, we did get the rub of the green. I don’t think that many of those rub of the green calls were that bad, Kwagga’s strip and the tip tackle aside. The rest for me were close calls, just this time they all seemed to go our way. But that’s test match rugby, you weren’t robbed but similarly if you’d have won, it wouldn’t have been an injustice. The Bok indiscipline in the second half was the most telling factor.
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@catogrande yeah not robbed, just rubbed of green stuff.
Actually the discipline wasn't that bad. High tackle from Etsebeth that was tough call (led to line out that BIL scored off) , an offside against Mapimpi, a scrum penalty where Vanipulo was on an interesting angle. The big one was the maul (three penalties and a try) where we just didn't have an answer.
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@sidbarret said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@catogrande yeah not robbed, just rubbed of green stuff.
Actually the discipline wasn't that bad. High tackle from Etsebeth that was tough call (led to line out that BIL scored off) , an offside against Mapimpi, a scrum penalty where Vanipulo was on an interesting angle. The big one was the maul (three penalties and a try) where we just didn't have an answer.
In the UK comms, Sam Warburton called it late in the first half that if the Lions kept the ball in hand a bit more and just played more rugby in general, the Boks we’re giving away penalties. He must have called that three or four times before we began to play that sort of pattern. In the second half the score and the penalty count backed this up. For sure one can point at some close calls but the numbers overall tell the story.
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@pakman yeah, but could have been even had Pollard hit the conversion and the penalty for the tip tackle.
Hell we could have been up by seven had Le Roux timed his run from Am's kick a bit better.
We had our chances, but didn't take them. It might have been different with a tad more luck, but them the breaks.
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@pecotrain said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@gibbonrib said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
Wasn't impressed with Curry at all in the first half (although I wasn't impressed by anyone apart from Itoje). Gave away 3(?) penalties, and didn't offer much. Gutted that Tipuric wasn't available.
The two first half penalties Curry gave away were the late hit on Faf and not rolling away when he was caught and pinned by SA - I would argue that the late hit upset Fafs kicking game and there was nothing more Curry could have done to roll away as he was largely out of the way and struggling to get out from under the SA players. I didn't see a third penalty - was Curry the second player in the tackle with Daly when le Roux took a high ball and the Lions were pinged (correctly) for not releasing the player when he got a knee down to the ground?
the third was early when SA were looking to clear their lines, and there was bobbling ball. I think first 10 minutes - but the ref blows an SA penalty, and calls 'offside 7'. Was hard to pick up live - it looked like a latish hit on the SA kicker.
I'd also strongly argue the 'not rolling' penalty. Really stood out as both sides were working so hard on clearing the tackle area - in that one, he lay there, then rolled. I hate the Gats tacklers lying longitudinal and impeding people to the breakdown. It's apparently legal, but you see it in every team he coaches. Smart rugby, but cynical as all hell, and very effective I reckon.
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@pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!
5 points means you need to manufacture a try rather than earn a penalty - given that all of SA's try scoring opportunities in the game after the 5 minute mark (when Itoje got his hads on the ball in questionable circumstances) came from mistakes that created opportunities from broken play rather than genuine pressure and broken play was just as likely to result in Lions points as Springbok points.
Your analysis of the reffing is right around Hamish Watson (definite card for tip tackle) but ignores SA having the penalty count going 8 v 1 against them in the second half without losing anyone for deliberate infringing. Of the three TMO incidents for tries, one was clearly correct (knock on by Kolbe), one benefitted the Boks (Fafs try) and the third appears to be correct from the front on angle which wasn't shown during the game but I assume was seen by the TMO.
So whats the Springbok gameplan for the 2nd test? Pretend everything is OK, do the same again and hope they can benefit from TMO mistakes to get more tries?
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@pecotrain said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!
5 points means you need to manufacture a try rather than earn a penalty - given that all of SA's try scoring opportunities in the game after the 5 minute mark (when Itoje got his hads on the ball in questionable circumstances) came from mistakes that created opportunities from broken play rather than genuine pressure and broken play was just as likely to result in Lions points as Springbok points.
Your analysis of the reffing is right around Hamish Watson (definite card for tip tackle) but ignores SA having the penalty count going 8 v 1 against them in the second half without losing anyone for deliberate infringing. Of the three TMO incidents for tries, one was clearly correct (knock on by Kolbe), one benefitted the Boks (Fafs try) and the third appears to be correct from the front on angle which wasn't shown during the game but I assume was seen by the TMO.
So whats the Springbok gameplan for the 2nd test? Pretend everything is OK, do the same again and hope they can benefit from TMO mistakes to get more tries?
Great photo. Clear and obvious as mud, in words of Will Greenwood!
And two of those 8 penalties were bogus. Very few in red zone.
But agree with summation. Stick with game plan and it will come down to how the 50:50s break.
I think I’d revert to big eightman.
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@pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@pecotrain said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
Point being that Boks being 5 behind at end was unlucky, and allowed Lions to close it out. If 2 points different ball game!
5 points means you need to manufacture a try rather than earn a penalty - given that all of SA's try scoring opportunities in the game after the 5 minute mark (when Itoje got his hads on the ball in questionable circumstances) came from mistakes that created opportunities from broken play rather than genuine pressure and broken play was just as likely to result in Lions points as Springbok points.
Your analysis of the reffing is right around Hamish Watson (definite card for tip tackle) but ignores SA having the penalty count going 8 v 1 against them in the second half without losing anyone for deliberate infringing. Of the three TMO incidents for tries, one was clearly correct (knock on by Kolbe), one benefitted the Boks (Fafs try) and the third appears to be correct from the front on angle which wasn't shown during the game but I assume was seen by the TMO.
So whats the Springbok gameplan for the 2nd test? Pretend everything is OK, do the same again and hope they can benefit from TMO mistakes to get more tries?
Great photo. Clear and obvious as mud, in words of Will Greenwood!
And two of those 8 penalties were bogus. Very few in red zone.
But agree with summation. Stick with game plan and it will come down to how the 50:50s break.
I think I’d revert to big eightman.
If you expand that pic it is quite clear really, though obviously not clear at the time from the footage we were shown. But do you really think Le Roux knew exactly where his feet were in relation to the kicker or do you think he was trying to squeeze as much as he could? Like Curry’s late hit on De Klerk, a little bit different and you’re a hero but if you put yourself at the mercy of the officials don’t t expect everything to go your way. The ironic thing is that Le Roux could have been half a yard onside and he would still have scored. Forward pass notwithstanding 😬
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@catogrande I think Le Roux would have been pumped with Adrenalin and just trying to chase.
But as you note a foot back and he’s onside and (forward pass excepted) scores.
Likewise, Kolbe’s knock down goes a foot further back and De Allande still scores.
Thank goodness for technology?!
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@pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
But as you note a foot back and he’s inside and (forward pass excepted) scores.
This came up a while ago, and it's always confused me with overlapping players. Anyone know what the actual interpretation is - is it that you have to have part of your body grounded behind the ball?
Or that you just need some overlap?
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@nzzp said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
@pakman said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions 1:
But as you note a foot back and he’s inside and (forward pass excepted) scores.
This came up a while ago, and it's always confused me with overlapping players. Anyone know what the actual interpretation is - is it that you have to have part of your body grounded behind the ball?
Or that you just need some overlap?
Not the ball, the player.
Can't be in front of the last player to play the ball.
In most cases it is an easy look at the front feet on the ground but I guess that in a case like this it is the line of the kicking foot?
