All Blacks vs Fiji 2
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hope ALB is fit - he's our one really experienced player in midfield.
If h isn’t we get Roane again. Great for his development but if he isn’t the answer in 13 then it’s another lost opportunity.
I know he sees himself as a centre now but under this gameplan so is Bridge. Roane brings the wing/centre role a bit more wing and centre.One key question for me is who are your centres likely to be in two years time at the RWC? For me, that's likely to be ALB, RIoane, and probably JG. Havili if he stays there. Savea (or Messam) if we want to make a joke
Tupaea a real possibility. This far out though, aside from ALB, you're lookign at the attributes to see who could build to a higher level.Rieko has potential because of his pace. Tana managed the shift, and became seriously good there. Rieko could get there, and is stepping up year on year. Can't see Bridge in tha tmix unless he starts playing there consistently
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hope ALB is fit - he's our one really experienced player in midfield.
If h isn’t we get Roane again. Great for his development but if he isn’t the answer in 13 then it’s another lost opportunity.
I know he sees himself as a centre now but under this gameplan so is Bridge. Roane brings the wing/centre role a bit more wing and centre.One key question for me is who are your centres likely to be in two years time at the RWC? For me, that's likely to be ALB, RIoane, and probably JG. Havili if he stays there. Savea (or Messam) if we want to make a joke
Tupaea a real possibility. This far out though, aside from ALB, you're lookign at the attributes to see who could build to a higher level.Rieko has potential because of his pace. Tana managed the shift, and became seriously good there. Rieko could get there, and is stepping up year on year. Can't see Bridge in tha tmix unless he starts playing there consistently
Sorry if I confused you. I don’t see Bridge In the centre mix at all. Just saying that under this structure he appears as much (if not more) in a distribution role midfield as he does as a winger.
Therefore if they want to continue with having the winger add to the midfield during a game then surely Roane does that better? At least he has the ability to beat a defender. -
Numbers on backs/positions are becoming blurred. I don't think it matters as much any more what 'position' a player is. How often do we see the backs lined up in the traditional 9,10, 12,13,15,11 or 14 way? Foster and co seem to be taking the mixing of roles up another level.
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Numbers on backs/positions are becoming blurred. I don't think it matters as much any more what 'position' a player is. How often do we see the backs lined up in the traditional 9,10, 12,13,15,11 or 14 way? Foster and co seem to be taking the mixing of roles up another level.
Which is why the ABs have no fucking structure. They're trying to be too clever for their own good and it puts the players under pressure.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hope ALB is fit - he's our one really experienced player in midfield.
If h isn’t we get Roane again. Great for his development but if he isn’t the answer in 13 then it’s another lost opportunity.
I know he sees himself as a centre now but under this gameplan so is Bridge. Roane brings the wing/centre role a bit more wing and centre.One key question for me is who are your centres likely to be in two years time at the RWC? For me, that's likely to be ALB, RIoane, and probably JG. Havili if he stays there. Savea (or Messam) if we want to make a joke
Tupaea a real possibility. This far out though, aside from ALB, you're lookign at the attributes to see who could build to a higher level.Rieko has potential because of his pace. Tana managed the shift, and became seriously good there. Rieko could get there, and is stepping up year on year. Can't see Bridge in tha tmix unless he starts playing there consistently
Of all the midfielders, the most experienced, consistent and, well, just bloody good, is ALB so it makes sense to build your pairings around him. Problem is they've had 5 years and haven't figured out his best position yet...
FWIW, I think he's best at 13 so my top pairing could be DH/ALB with the second pairing being ALB/RI or DH/RI and if JG gets back into the groove, ALB/JG.
Havili has only had one Test, hence the use of the word "could". I just think his skillset compliments ALB well.
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Numbers on backs/positions are becoming blurred. I don't think it matters as much any more what 'position' a player is. How often do we see the backs lined up in the traditional 9,10, 12,13,15,11 or 14 way? Foster and co seem to be taking the mixing of roles up another level.
Or down a level, depending on your point of view....
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Numbers on backs/positions are becoming blurred. I don't think it matters as much any more what 'position' a player is. How often do we see the backs lined up in the traditional 9,10, 12,13,15,11 or 14 way? Foster and co seem to be taking the mixing of roles up another level.
Or down a level, depending on your point of view....
Thing is that they talk about physicality and being dominant around the tackle then come up with a system that needs ball running loose forwards positioned out wide.
Muddled thinking from what I can see. -
@family-man said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
According to plumtree alb,savea,tuuinukuafe and popoali’i are doubtful for the game
I read his comments as ALB and Savea have been training so are a good chance to play. Big Karl and Dalton are definitely out.
Regarding the midfield selection, ALB is more likely to continue playing at centre for the Chiefs so it would make sense he is used there for the ABs too.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hope ALB is fit - he's our one really experienced player in midfield.
If h isn’t we get Roane again. Great for his development but if he isn’t the answer in 13 then it’s another lost opportunity.
I know he sees himself as a centre now but under this gameplan so is Bridge. Roane brings the wing/centre role a bit more wing and centre.One key question for me is who are your centres likely to be in two years time at the RWC? For me, that's likely to be ALB, RIoane, and probably JG. Havili if he stays there. Savea (or Messam) if we want to make a joke
Tupaea a real possibility. This far out though, aside from ALB, you're lookign at the attributes to see who could build to a higher level.Rieko has potential because of his pace. Tana managed the shift, and became seriously good there. Rieko could get there, and is stepping up year on year. Can't see Bridge in tha tmix unless he starts playing there consistently
Interesting post, because I think there is an important point here. Our most successful teams have been relatively settled, so I wonder where a player like PUJ fits in? The next WC is not that far away, so this could indicate that he’s got a heap of work to do to get another look.
I’m surprised that they having had another look at him, and would at least like to know what they told him to work on (move franchises?). I also wonder how things might have turned out if TUJ didn’t get injured, as he looks like a traditional 12 in the Tupaea style.
Regarding the current mix, I’m tempted to say that they should try Havili with ALB and Roane and then make a decision and given that combo the rest of the season (with one off the bench [ALB or Havili] or moved to the wing [Roane]).
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hope ALB is fit - he's our one really experienced player in midfield.
If h isn’t we get Roane again. Great for his development but if he isn’t the answer in 13 then it’s another lost opportunity.
I know he sees himself as a centre now but under this gameplan so is Bridge. Roane brings the wing/centre role a bit more wing and centre.One key question for me is who are your centres likely to be in two years time at the RWC? For me, that's likely to be ALB, RIoane, and probably JG. Havili if he stays there. Savea (or Messam) if we want to make a joke
Tupaea a real possibility. This far out though, aside from ALB, you're lookign at the attributes to see who could build to a higher level.Rieko has potential because of his pace. Tana managed the shift, and became seriously good there. Rieko could get there, and is stepping up year on year. Can't see Bridge in tha tmix unless he starts playing there consistently
Interesting post, because I think there is an important point here. Our most successful teams have been relatively settled, so I wonder where a player like PUJ fits in? The next WC is not that far away, so this could indicate that he’s got a heap of work to do to get another look.
I’m surprised that they having had another look at him, and would at least like to know what they told him to work on (move franchises?). I also wonder how things might have turned out if TUJ didn’t get injured, as he looks like a traditional 12 in the Tupaea style.
Regarding the current mix, I’m tempted to say that they should try Havili with ALB and Roane and then make a decision and given that combo the rest of the season (with one off the bench [ALB or Havili] or moved to the wing [Roane]).
Havili starts or is left right out. We don’t need midfield/fullback cover.
If we go Havili/ALB are we really establishing a partnership that will continue though?
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
If we go Havili/ALB are we really establishing a partnership that will continue though?
Injury permitting.
Havili has been impressive. I'd have no issues with either a Havili/ALB or ALB/RIoane midfield. I just want a preferred option, with a preferred style please, and start playing together.
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hope ALB is fit - he's our one really experienced player in midfield.
If h isn’t we get Roane again. Great for his development but if he isn’t the answer in 13 then it’s another lost opportunity.
I know he sees himself as a centre now but under this gameplan so is Bridge. Roane brings the wing/centre role a bit more wing and centre.One key question for me is who are your centres likely to be in two years time at the RWC? For me, that's likely to be ALB, RIoane, and probably JG. Havili if he stays there. Savea (or Messam) if we want to make a joke
Tupaea a real possibility. This far out though, aside from ALB, you're lookign at the attributes to see who could build to a higher level.Rieko has potential because of his pace. Tana managed the shift, and became seriously good there. Rieko could get there, and is stepping up year on year. Can't see Bridge in tha tmix unless he starts playing there consistently
Interesting post, because I think there is an important point here. Our most successful teams have been relatively settled, so I wonder where a player like PUJ fits in? The next WC is not that far away, so this could indicate that he’s got a heap of work to do to get another look.
I’m surprised that they having had another look at him, and would at least like to know what they told him to work on (move franchises?). I also wonder how things might have turned out if TUJ didn’t get injured, as he looks like a traditional 12 in the Tupaea style.
Regarding the current mix, I’m tempted to say that they should try Havili with ALB and Roane and then make a decision and given that combo the rest of the season (with one off the bench [ALB or Havili] or moved to the wing [Roane]).
Havili starts or is left right out. We don’t need midfield/fullback cover.
If we go Havili/ALB are we really establishing a partnership that will continue though?
I dunno but I would assume that the combination should be looked at.
I dont understand your other comment - if we only have ALB and Roane in the team we need midfield cover somewhere else. Havili is pretty useful given that he can cover a few positions - he’s probably more useful that Jordie as he has at least played midfield and center consistently at Super level.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
If we go Havili/ALB are we really establishing a partnership that will continue though?
Injury permitting.
Havili has been impressive. I'd have no issues with either a Havili/ALB or ALB/RIoane midfield. I just want a preferred option, with a preferred style please, and start playing together.
If we have Jordie at FB I’d like Havili there to give another playmaker, but if it is Dmac (or BB) at 15 then ALB and Roane might be a better fit.
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Pakman team prediction:
Bower/Taylor/Ta'avao
BBBR/Whitelock
Savea/Aioane/Jacobson
Smith/Mo'unga
Havili/ALB
Rioane/Barrett (B)/JordanBench:
de Groot/Coles/Laulala/Barrett (S)/Blackadder
Weber/Tupaea/ReeceWant Tupaea to get a run, although would make bench tricky.
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Numbers on backs/positions are becoming blurred. I don't think it matters as much any more what 'position' a player is. How often do we see the backs lined up in the traditional 9,10, 12,13,15,11 or 14 way? Foster and co seem to be taking the mixing of roles up another level.
Or down a level, depending on your point of view....
Thing is that they talk about physicality and being dominant around the tackle then come up with a system that needs ball running loose forwards positioned out wide.
Muddled thinking from what I can see.The reason Fiji smashed us at the breakdown.
Muddled thinking is 100% right. -
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Numbers on backs/positions are becoming blurred. I don't think it matters as much any more what 'position' a player is. How often do we see the backs lined up in the traditional 9,10, 12,13,15,11 or 14 way? Foster and co seem to be taking the mixing of roles up another level.
Or down a level, depending on your point of view....
Thing is that they talk about physicality and being dominant around the tackle then come up with a system that needs ball running loose forwards positioned out wide.
Muddled thinking from what I can see.the French system last night showed the folly of relying on that plan. By the time the ball gets to your wide runners the opposition are already in their face. You are then left with hope. Hope your 108kg loose forward can bust the tackle of the 100kg midfielder in his face, or hope they can sneak an offload (and hope your FB is there to take it). You need momentum in close to create that separation out wide.
Everyone knows this, it's how you create that momentum that's the question
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hope ALB is fit - he's our one really experienced player in midfield.
If h isn’t we get Roane again. Great for his development but if he isn’t the answer in 13 then it’s another lost opportunity.
I know he sees himself as a centre now but under this gameplan so is Bridge. Roane brings the wing/centre role a bit more wing and centre.One key question for me is who are your centres likely to be in two years time at the RWC? For me, that's likely to be ALB, RIoane, and probably JG. Havili if he stays there. Savea (or Messam) if we want to make a joke
Tupaea a real possibility. This far out though, aside from ALB, you're lookign at the attributes to see who could build to a higher level.Rieko has potential because of his pace. Tana managed the shift, and became seriously good there. Rieko could get there, and is stepping up year on year. Can't see Bridge in tha tmix unless he starts playing there consistently
Ahem (#GOM). "Midfield". There is only one centre. He wears 13. 12 is 2nd five-eighth. We are NZers, not Poms.
(And while you're at it ditch those coloured boots...)
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Numbers on backs/positions are becoming blurred. I don't think it matters as much any more what 'position' a player is. How often do we see the backs lined up in the traditional 9,10, 12,13,15,11 or 14 way? Foster and co seem to be taking the mixing of roles up another level.
Or down a level, depending on your point of view....
Thing is that they talk about physicality and being dominant around the tackle then come up with a system that needs ball running loose forwards positioned out wide.
Muddled thinking from what I can see.Listened to John Hart talking to Darcy last night while on my morning constitutional.
He basically said we don't have the players to bash the opposition ( unless it's Aus) suggesting all the talk about being physical is lip service. Hence we're developing a different pattern.
Probably something in that. If we don't have bashers we can't invent them.
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Numbers on backs/positions are becoming blurred. I don't think it matters as much any more what 'position' a player is. How often do we see the backs lined up in the traditional 9,10, 12,13,15,11 or 14 way? Foster and co seem to be taking the mixing of roles up another level.
Or down a level, depending on your point of view....
Thing is that they talk about physicality and being dominant around the tackle then come up with a system that needs ball running loose forwards positioned out wide.
Muddled thinking from what I can see.Listened to John Hart talking to Darcy last night while on my morning constitutional.
He basically said we don't have the players to bash the opposition ( unless it's Aus) suggesting all the talk about being physical is lip service. Hence we're developing a different pattern.
Probably something in that. If we don't have bashers we can't invent them.
He's wrong. We have players like Moody, Taylor, Coles, Ofa, Pat T, Whitelock, Brodie, Akira, Cane etc that can all bash players up front.
Also, the expectation isn't that we will dominate other sides up front - that's just not really possible in todays game. The expectation is that we'll at least get some parity. If we do that then our backs get oodles more space to work with. If we don't the backs get the ball with defenders in their face and make errors.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Numbers on backs/positions are becoming blurred. I don't think it matters as much any more what 'position' a player is. How often do we see the backs lined up in the traditional 9,10, 12,13,15,11 or 14 way? Foster and co seem to be taking the mixing of roles up another level.
Or down a level, depending on your point of view....
Thing is that they talk about physicality and being dominant around the tackle then come up with a system that needs ball running loose forwards positioned out wide.
Muddled thinking from what I can see.the French system last night showed the folly of relying on that plan. By the time the ball gets to your wide runners the opposition are already in their face. You are then left with hope. Hope your 108kg loose forward can bust the tackle of the 100kg midfielder in his face, or hope they can sneak an offload (and hope your FB is there to take it). You need momentum in close to create that separation out wide.
Everyone knows this, it's how you create that momentum that's the question
Not quite everyone it seems
