All Blacks vs Fiji 2
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@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@yeetyaah said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Heading to this one. Will be the first time I've ever been to an All Blacks game.
I'll be there too but I've been to a few more tests. The first test I ever went to live also featured Fiji (vs Argentina at the 1987 RWC).
Let's hope there is a good crowd and the weather is OK.
Me too. Keen to see the double header
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
At that time in Nonu's career, that would have made for some very interesting discussions, because Toeava was lethal at 12 (he was just almost never used there)
We lost two potential greats in Toeava & Kahui - the latter thru injury and Toeava thru poor selection/management.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew to be fair, it took a long time to settle on Ma'a-Conrad, IIRC it was something like 25 consecutive tests without ever starting the same pair.
Yep. We played a fullback at 13, tried a Flat Back Line approach (remember Casey Laulala?) and mucked about with Isaia Toeava.
But at some stage you have to stop experimenting, make a decision and stick to it.
I think there was a point where Crotty / ALB was the preferred pairing but Crotty was getting injured. Then when he came back from injury it seemed SBW plus one was the pairing.
And for what it’s worth I thought Mils was an excellent centre.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
At that time in Nonu's career, that would have made for some very interesting discussions, because Toeava was lethal at 12 (he was just almost never used there)
We lost two potential greats in Toeava & Kahui - the latter thru injury and Toeava thru poor selection/management.
@davidav radar just went off…
I’ll give you Kahui, but Toeava failed to really stamp his authority on super games at a consistent level. The talent was there and the physical attributes, but that next step wasn’t there.
Best game I saw him play was over in South Africa, it was a quarter or semi final I think, he played in the midfield and was absolutely dominant.
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
At that time in Nonu's career, that would have made for some very interesting discussions, because Toeava was lethal at 12 (he was just almost never used there)
We lost two potential greats in Toeava & Kahui - the latter thru injury and Toeava thru poor selection/management.
@davidav radar just went off…
I’ll give you Kahui, but Toeava failed to really stamp his authority on super games at a consistent level. The talent was there and the physical attributes, but that next step wasn’t there.
Best game I saw him play was over in South Africa, it was a quarter or semi final I think, he played in the midfield and was absolutely dominant.
He played at 12 that night too.
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I’ll give you Kahui, but Toeava failed to really stamp his authority on super games at a consistent level. The talent was there and the physical attributes, but that next step wasn’t there.
Fair point, but I just don't think he was managed that well.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I’ll give you Kahui, but Toeava failed to really stamp his authority on super games at a consistent level. The talent was there and the physical attributes, but that next step wasn’t there.
Fair point, but I just don't think he was managed that well.
And that’s a fair comment too. I think there have been a few other ABs in that category too.
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
At that time in Nonu's career, that would have made for some very interesting discussions, because Toeava was lethal at 12 (he was just almost never used there)
We lost two potential greats in Toeava & Kahui - the latter thru injury and Toeava thru poor selection/management.
@davidav radar just went off…
I’ll give you Kahui, but Toeava failed to really stamp his authority on super games at a consistent level. The talent was there and the physical attributes, but that next step wasn’t there.
Best game I saw him play was over in South Africa, it was a quarter or semi final I think, he played in the midfield and was absolutely dominant.
This one? He played at 12, created two, and went off injured (starts about 2:40 in):
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Flying Fijians Coach Vern Cotter says they are hopeful that captain Levani Botia will be able to play this weekend while Eroni Sau has been ruled out due to an injury.
According to Cotter, Botia suffered a knee strain last Saturday, and is expected to undergo a scan today.
Cotter says it is a 50/50 situation with Botia.
Botia might be lucky that he is 50/50 and not suspended -
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@bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
the thing that makes me wonder about foster the most
areas like loosies and midfield, we're trying to find new incumbents...but he never plays the same combos more than once, play Ioane 3-4 time in a row, let him settle in! playing someone for one games...then not even 23, then bench, then starting again is never going to get the comfortable
There was no need to play frizell on sat, i like him, think he doesn't get enough credit around here...but we know what he can do int the black jersey, we dont need to keep testing him
Injuries have played a huge part in the midfield selections over the past number of years. Plus the fact we came to the end of a period where we had two pretty durable players in Smith and Nonu that were constants for a long time.
During that era though we did try a number of players around those two, with mixed success mind you.
Trying to find that right combination with players that have relative inexperience, plus injuries, is not an easy one for the coaches, whether that be Henry, Hansen and now Foster.
Can't disagree with your comments on the problems the coaches have had, but Conrad & Ma'a departed 6 years ago and we've had an awful lot of buggering about and weird selections at 12/13 since then. How much time do they need?
Not blaming Foster for all of this and he needs a bit of time to decide on his midfield but at some stage in the very near future they need to decide on their top combinations and stick to them.
Well best at RWC2019 was SBW and JG with ALB off the bench, but they didn't pick that.
Currently it should be ALB and JG (with Rieko on the wing) but they can't pick that.
I feel like the less this guy plays, the better he gets viewed.
It's been quite some time since he had a good test. I like him and I think he's world class, but ALB has a better body of work over the last few years, and so (perhaps) does Roane.
I don't - and I find it interesting his "lack of pace" is often mentioned, it'd be good to see an example of what this actually means. He was bloody good at centre as a young fella, if he'd have been allowed to stick there, I feel we might have seen a lot more come of him. But yeah at 12 he's a complete dud.
I am a big fan of JG. I was saying a few years ago the ABs should build the backline around him. Error free on attack and defense, and superb at putting people into space. It used to be a real surprise when he made a mistake and he seemed to do the right thing at the right time.
Not sure what happened, but the last two years or so errors started to creep into his game. Trying too hard in the transition from role playing youngster to experienced leader?
As for his lack of pace, it was never a problem for Smith. JG does struggle to beat players on the outside, and I do remember being surprised at how easily he was caught from behind when it looked for all money he was going to score.
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@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Flying Fijians Coach Vern Cotter says they are hopeful that captain Levani Botia will be able to play this weekend while Eroni Sau has been ruled out due to an injury.
According to Cotter, Botia suffered a knee strain last Saturday, and is expected to undergo a scan today.
Cotter says it is a 50/50 situation with Botia.
Botia might be lucky that he is 50/50 and not suspended -
Didn’t commentators say completely legal?
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@pakman said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Flying Fijians Coach Vern Cotter says they are hopeful that captain Levani Botia will be able to play this weekend while Eroni Sau has been ruled out due to an injury.
According to Cotter, Botia suffered a knee strain last Saturday, and is expected to undergo a scan today.
Cotter says it is a 50/50 situation with Botia.
Botia might be lucky that he is 50/50 and not suspended -
Didn’t commentators say completely legal?
They were too busy trying to “inject excitement” rather than look at what happened.
In my eyes it was a YC only so no banning risk.
It was careless in that the tackler was never giving himself the chance to pull out if DMac lowered his body position by stepping. Head contact was always a likely result when you go for a big chest hit like that.IIRC there was a replay that should have alerted the TMO. Maybe he wasn’t watching?
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
In my eyes it was a YC only so no banning risk.
refer the framework above though - it's contact to the head with force = red card. The issue is that people aren't applying the framework, so what's the point in having it.
We've seen this wtih the 'tip tackle' or players in air framework, that keeps getting ignored, or apparently mitigated by defenders (George Bridge penalty, Bryce Heem, etc).
I don't care what the laws are, I care that they are clear, and enforced reasonably consistently.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
In my eyes it was a YC only so no banning risk.
refer the framework above though - it's contact to the head with force = red card. The issue is that people aren't applying the framework, so what's the point in having it.
We've seen this wtih the 'tip tackle' or players in air framework, that keeps getting ignored, or apparently mitigated by defenders (George Bridge penalty, Bryce Heem, etc).
I don't care what the laws are, I care that they are clear, and enforced reasonably consistently.
Isn't that the starting point, then apply mitigating factors, n this case DMac lowering his body position. So yellow for me, but ridiculous not to be reviewed. (Some suggestion initial contact was on shoulder, which I didn't see, but even so stays at yellow IMO.)
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@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.
BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.
how about jordie on the wing?......
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.
BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.
how about jordie on the wing?......
I can’t wait for @Rancid-Schnitzel to read this
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Isn't that the starting point, then apply mitigating factors, n this case DMac lowering his body position. So yellow for me, but ridiculous not to be reviewed. (Some suggestion initial contact was on shoulder, which I didn't see, but even so stays at yellow IMO.)
The mitigation is a sudden lowering, and I'm not sure that applies here. Nonetheless, we agree it shouldn't have been 'play on'
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Isn't that the starting point, then apply mitigating factors, n this case DMac lowering his body position. So yellow for me, but ridiculous not to be reviewed. (Some suggestion initial contact was on shoulder, which I didn't see, but even so stays at yellow IMO.)
The mitigation is a sudden lowering, and I'm not sure that applies here. Nonetheless, we agree it shouldn't have been 'play on'
Probably need to watch a clip but IIRC DMac tried to step inside/change direction which put his body at about a 45degree angle meaning that his head was lower. A step like that is sudden.
Fault still lies with the tackler though. -
Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.
- Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
- Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
- Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
- Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
- Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
- Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.
I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.
It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.
- Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
- Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
- Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
- Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
- Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
- Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.
I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.
It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.
I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.
