All Blacks vs Fiji
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The more I read about the pros and cons of George Bridge in this thread the more I wonder if he is better at 12 than as outside back. Scandalous. I know.
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@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@snowy said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
It's good to see the press hoeing into Foster & Co's Let's Get Physical (honest, it's a priority) Coaching Clown Circus. Anything that will help see him to the door
I thought Fiji were pretty good, all pro players, etc.
I'm also not getting into a "bag Foster" contest but he did just break a couple of new records for us didn't he? Both lowest score against them, and most conceded. Records falling everywhere since he joined the team. Harsh I know but facts are facts (mostly).
The anoying thing is he talks about new systems, and physicality and then the teams don't deliver - and he gives platitudes around 'what a great test' rather than 'we really need to improve a lot, it was not acceptable'
That is what pisses me off too. Dopey grin when we were shit, and the same shit as our last fails. Just wear it, we weren't very good.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Dont think this has been posted, but this is pretty cool
We are Groot
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nzzp I don't think Bridge is out of form, he is doing what he has always done. He has never been one to beat multiple defenders.
Last night he was a key component to the first try with a snappy midfield pass, and the try he scored he initiated the forward momentum with a good run from a lineout.
I really disagree with this fallacy that you and Marshall insist on. He was a key component in much the same way as pretty much any other back in the squad could have been if playing the same role. He also was a key component on a couple of other occasions where he was playing the same role but shat his daks when he saw a defender running at him and died with the ball.
He hit the line and passed before he got tackled, this isn't isn't something unique to Bridge's skill set. At least Rieko's ones that didn't pan out he actually got the ball away and didn't just turn turtle.
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@tim said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
He was physically dominated by the Blues locks during the SRTT final
Do you mean PPP? I don't rate him and he was poor against the Blues in the final. Vaai plays for the Chiefs.
Oops, my mistake. I meant the Crusaders during the SRA final.
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When does the citing window close? 24 hours from full time?
Obviously I think its better for the game next week if Botia plays, but I imagine if it was an AB that had done that...
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@nta What an astute comment. Would only NZ rugby fans listen. The 2004-15 era was pretty special in terms of talent, including a coach of significant mana in Graham Henry. Great eras don’t last forever. And many of the Big Names have moved on. There’ll be another golden era, undoubtedly. But you can’t force it. And even with a handful of very talented (if ageing) individuals like Coles, Retallick, Whitelock, Aaron Smith and BB, I doubt it will come under this coaching panel, who look, sound and act like a stopgap to me.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
When does the citing window close? 24 hours from full time?
Obviously I think its better for the game next week if Botia plays, but I imagine if it was an AB that had done that...
Soc med meltdown
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@yeetyaah said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We just lack physicality. Don't think we took the threat serious enough and took the piss with the starting lineup a bit.
In saying that we should still be playing better than this shit.we’re is a game plan or progression from last year .soft forward effort let’s hope COVID keeps SA out of the RC .
Yeah. Unbeatable.
No the Lions,England a full strength French team can beat SA we could under different coaches.
But not playing like we have last year and that passive shit forward performance we put out against Fiji.
Yes Sack the idiot coaches.I can sort of accept a 'passive' performance because that is an attitude thing and players aren't always going to play that way. In an ideal world players would be up for every game but that is not humanly possible.
Yet another thing they said they were trying to fix.
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@nta said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nta Problem is we aren't seeing any improvement in certain areas but instead history repeating itself every season (basically an extension of the Foster-led Chiefs). In contrast, you can see Rennie's influence on the Wobs. The harder-edged approach to forward play against the French (basically an extension of the niggly, hard-nosed back-to-back champion Chiefs side).
And yes a lot of that could be attributed to the coach. I know there is a lot of angst around the perceived nepotism Foster's appointment generates.
But how much do you attribute to the players? I'm sure they're all out there trying their best, but maybe it is just that the group has limits and no amount of coaching will address it because they simply haven't gone through enough pain in losing. These guys following your all-timers have been playing in an environment where they got an artificial leg-up from the mere presence of those individuals, and while you're winning games against Australia by 40-blot and recovering enough to trounce a fired-up Fiji, that is unlikely to change.
What you say makes sense but team selections go back to the coaching team.
JB at fullback is twice or thrice as good as JB at wing (and looks far faster).
The AB coaches refuse to play their best 6s (in their right positions) and send the next best 7 overseas.
They don't choose the best remaining props when the regulars are injured.
They play their C team against Fiji A/B(?) and their B team against Tonga C.
They have two team moves a game and then let everything get ragged.
They haven't developed enough depth and combinations (especially combinations, especially midfield, Ennor at centre for godsakes? One of the toughest positions for a young guy who makes Kahui look indestructible. And really he's a wing).
The AB coaching team enjoy losing because they only know how to fix things for the second (or third) game.
Recently Argentina is better, Ireland is stronger, Fiji have been coached to be more disciplined with less lapses and brain farts (Cotter for ABs forward coach).
While the ABs might be weaker, they still have good players and the team should be stronger than its parts. We are struggling to put away teams who meet each other in quarantine and who play across Europe while NZ-based players should know each other down to their shoelaces by now. -
@bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nzzp I don't think Bridge is out of form, he is doing what he has always done. He has never been one to beat multiple defenders.
Last night he was a key component to the first try with a snappy midfield pass, and the try he scored he initiated the forward momentum with a good run from a lineout.
I really disagree with this fallacy that you and Marshall insist on. He was a key component in much the same way as pretty much any other back in the squad could have been if playing the same role. He also was a key component on a couple of other occasions where he was playing the same role but shat his daks when he saw a defender running at him and died with the ball.
He hit the line and passed before he got tackled, this isn't isn't something unique to Bridge's skill set. At least Rieko's ones that didn't pan out he actually got the ball away and didn't just turn turtle.
Don't disagree with you, I know other backs could have made the same contribution. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way saying I am happy he is our wing.
That post was more a response to the claim Bridge is out of form. I think he is playing to the standard he has been playing for the Crusaders since he learnt how to catch a high ball (remember how bad he was against the BILs?).
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nta Problem is we aren't seeing any improvement in certain areas but instead history repeating itself every season (basically an extension of the Foster-led Chiefs). In contrast, you can see Rennie's influence on the Wobs. The harder-edged approach to forward play against the French (basically an extension of the niggly, hard-nosed back-to-back champion Chiefs side).
If we are putting the same yardstick that some on here have put on the ABs performance, from my view the Aussie forwards were bullied for a significant period of that first test against a 2nd or even 3rd rate French pack.
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
I haven’t read the thread yet but when I do I hope to see plenty of comments wondering why our loose forwards didn’t act as a unit.
I'm reading through the thread now.
Sotutu was busy but at the wrong places.
And taking the wrong options, for example that scrum right on HT. BB would have strolled in if he had passed. He also didn't pass to an unmarked AB in the 2nd half.
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@act-crusader Yes, quite true but there was an obvious shift in the approach of the Wob forwards and they did gain some meters up fat man's ally. Still a work in progress of course but at least you see some kind of steps in the right direction (according to my humble opinion anyway).
My question to you is have we seen anything different from the ABs forwards since the Lions Tour? -
I had to rewatch all of it just now.
I was a bit hard on SF, he was good in the lineouts but just not very dynamic and slow in places. Him and Patty T were noticeably absent on my screen from some important rucks. We were so crappy in protecting the breakdown, Fiji had a field day.
Of our locks in general play, apart from Whitelock, and a rusty, weaker Retallick, there is little depth. I think they need to try, um, maybe Tom Robinson?
I thought Jacobson was good and defensively he certainly was (not on long enough for attack) but for the reserves I only just noticed now how important Lomax was for the mauls, he and De Groot stayed close to Coles and looked far more cohesive, energetic and stubborn compared to the starting front row. Taylor wasn't so bad on second viewing, he tried, but it was just him and Retallick of the tight 5 with any sort of application. I'm worried about Laulala, he waddled around like a chunky panda. The replacement props looked far superior in general play, Laulala at least should be a senior player now.
Very exciting to see Dmac Ioane and Jordan link near the end, sheer speed and class even if the movement was stopped and Ioane had some nice passes but doesn't seem to link that well to his 12. Midfield a work in progress I feel.
BB: had a fine game I thought, except someone else needs to kick the conversions.
Bridge and Reece- well both tried, and Reece had his run, but they were physically outmatched and Bridge had a really bad read on that Fijian try, nice linking, but why is he doing that and not the midfield?
Captaincy, the ABs stiffened noticeably when Coles and Whitelock were on the field.
We were probably lucky the Fijian backline weren't as good as their big forwards, who tired in the last 10. But didn't they play well with 14 men! -
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@act-crusader Yes, quite true but there was an obvious shift in the approach of the Wob forwards and they did gain some meters up fat man's ally. Still a work in progress of course but at least you see some kind of steps in the right direction (according to my humble opinion anyway).
My question to you is have we seen anything different from the ABs forwards since the Lions Tour?Um No. In 2021 we have only the last two matches to go on, but so far I have not seen the dominance or physicality that I would like from our pack.
We seem predictable and too often have been exposed for lack of application and muscle, and dare I say it inventiveness.
Is Tupou Vai'i injured? Out of favour? We need to have more of a succession plan in place for the imminent departure of Retallick who looked old and on the back foot. We've already let Cowley-Tuioti and Lachlan Boshier slip out of our grasp, don't want any more to seek the yen.
Not enough of the roll up the sleeves and do the hard yards attitude shown. I would prefer a more energetic look at the future and at least give players like Tupou Vai;i, Tom Robinson and Ah Kuoi a decent shot. We need more grunt, more muscle in the front 5 especially. Fiji have given us a taste of what is achievable via players and coaches experiencing a different structure and environment in the NH. We need to be ready - not caught in the headlights and prepared for combat on an altogether different level. -
@jailbreak7 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Cowley-Tuioti and Lachlan Boshier
This is akin to lamenting the loss of Paul Tito and James Blackie.
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@bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@jailbreak7 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Cowley-Tuioti and Lachlan Boshier
This is akin to lamenting the loss of Paul Tito and James Blackie.
All those years after they were gone we had to settle for Jack, Williams and that other bloke…..McCaw or whatever his name was. Dark times.
