Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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There was a Pakistani quick whose name I forget but went the other way - an offie who started bowling seam. He bowled a few overs of spin in a test though. Probably about 10-15 years ago.
Ravindra could be another contender for all-rounder. Especially if he wants to break in to the side now that Young and Conway look to have locked up the top order spots even after Taylor retires, he could try and make it as a number 6 who gives us a spin option.
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@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Despite all our "recent" success (it's actually like 6-7 years of sustained high performance) there is still no respect on our name.
We get shit tour schedules, 2 test series, and shoved to the outsides of domestic summers by asshole teams we are actually better than, but are clinging to history, or the fact there are a billion of them, and they have nothing else in their lives.
We got the tour of Australia which isn't nothing. This tour has planned on the fly, they are due to schedule England again next year for a three test series.
Getting good tests during the holiday season is hard because SA/Aus clash, England can't because of their CBA and good luck getting India to do anything... so its' a steady diet of Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and the Windies.
If we had performed in Australia and won then I think we would have a lot more respect in India/England.
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@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial Jamieson is absolutely locked in in my mind.
The only decision is whether we need to play a spinner or not.
In all honesty, I'm inclined to take the Clive Lloyd route and just say, "Why?" Play our four seamers and Mitch Jr. or CdG and damn the torpedos. It gives us our strongest batting line-up and we should not forget that a draw allows us a share of the title.
But, I think it's likely that Stead will want one - and I think that means going your oddball route and 4 quicks and a spinner, with Santner batting 7. The batting is light that way, which heaps additional pressure on the top order.
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
You'd think that a specialist seamer would be more likely to also make a good spinner compared to a batsman - but, none of them seem to bother. And I've never seen anyone in the nets at club cricket who didn't fuck around a bit bowling (or trying to bowl) a bit of spin.
If we want spin down the line then I reckon take the captaincy off KW ( less pressure ) give it to Latham and get our premier batsman to send down a few overs, he’s actually pretty decent.
His action is probably what screwed his elbow.
Left arm bandaged during the last test
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@cyclops said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
There was a Pakistani quick whose name I forget but went the other way - an offie who started bowling seam. He bowled a few overs of spin in a test though. Probably about 10-15 years ago.
Sohail Tanvir?
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
If we had performed in Australia and won then I think we would have a lot more respect in India/England.
I'd argue that India have been good to us in the last decade. They tour NZ a fair bit and don't shirk on the number of games compared to Australia who come for a week maybe. The revenue from those Indian tours have had a direct influence on our current success, in my opinion.
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
Colin Miller is probably the closest we've seen.
Shane Thompson transitioned from seam to spin and was not as good. Around 2003-4ish Scott Styris was semi-seriously trying to develop his offspin to become a second spinning option but I don't think we saw it at international level.
I think Chris Harris just sat on the fence between the two. Was he slow-slow-medium or quick spin?
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@reprobate said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Didn't Chris Harris pretty much switch from bowling seam to leggies? but never gained much recognition largely because his pace bowling was the same speed?
Snap
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@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
By the time other countries wise up (if that ever happens) this generation of players will have moved on, we won't be as good, results will fall, and we will get shunted back from any better fixtures we might have been able to access.
While these times are all sorts of awesome, the lack of recognition irks me.The lack of recognition for sure.
Not so sure about the future and I really hope that you are wrong re results. The next generation of players will be watching this. They know that there is money in cricket and they know that NZ can be successful. I'm more optimistic that we could have some sustained excellence. We aren't always going to have a KW, but we have done it with rugby and didn't always have a McCaw or Carter, so why not?
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Jason Floros (Queensland Bulls) was a pace bowler all through his age grade years in ACT but made the Queensland team as an off spinning allrounder.
In think that in these cases it is just that the pace aspect isn't top level but as an allround skilled cricketer they can add a few overs of spin to their bag of skills.
I guess that the original question was whether anyone is good at both and can fill a dual role in a team.
I imagine that Jamieson could develop a nasty top spinner. -
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Mark Waugh realised he was never gonna be as good at batting as Steve and switched from Medium to spin if I remember rightly.
In that case I hope Steve Waugh tries his hand at commentary very soon.
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@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
Colin Miller is probably the closest we've seen.
Shane Thompson transitioned from seam to spin and was not as good. Around 2003-4ish Scott Styris was semi-seriously trying to develop his offspin to become a second spinning option but I don't think we saw it at international level.
I think Chris Harris just sat on the fence between the two. Was he slow-slow-medium or quick spin?
He alternated between dibbly and dobbly as was the style in the mid 90s.
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@higgins said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@snowy The Black Caps opposition more often than not did have one or two like them though.
Was getting at the point that we can have future success now that we have the pathways, the money (IPL, etc) and the inspiration for young players. Christ it was depressing being a cricket fan in NZ for years, let alone aspiring to be a player. Hopefully that has or will change now.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
You'd think that a specialist seamer would be more likely to also make a good spinner compared to a batsman - but, none of them seem to bother. And I've never seen anyone in the nets at club cricket who didn't fuck around a bit bowling (or trying to bowl) a bit of spin.
Tony Greig switched from seam to spin sometimes and famously took a bunch of wickets in the West Indies that way.
The legendary Mike Procter used to bowl off spin well as well as bowling lightning quick off the wrong foot and making pots of runs. What a player he was.
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@kiwipie said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
You'd think that a specialist seamer would be more likely to also make a good spinner compared to a batsman - but, none of them seem to bother. And I've never seen anyone in the nets at club cricket who didn't fuck around a bit bowling (or trying to bowl) a bit of spin.
Tony Greig switched from seam to spin sometimes and famously took a bunch of wickets in the West Indies that way.
The legendary Mike Procter used to bowl off spin well as well as bowling lightning quick off the wrong foot and making pots of runs. What a player he was.
He coulda been better than Paddles, Beefy, Imran and Kapiti by some accounts. Sounds like a hell of a player robbed of a decent test career.
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@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I think it is temperament as to why people don't change. I was a fast bowler and bowling spin would be like retiring.
I was a fast bowler too when I talk about my cricket career.
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@reprobate said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Didn't Chris Harris pretty much switch from bowling seam to leggies? but never gained much recognition largely because his pace bowling was the same speed?
Yes, and yes. Exact same speed and bowling action (apart from wrist).
But changed from seam-up big banana in swingers, to leg spinners. But they were more rollers that angle in and straightened.
If you want to see his transition, then watch the Chris Harris part of this video at 4:53, which I made btw, as I'm an anorak.
