Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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@reprobate said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Didn't Chris Harris pretty much switch from bowling seam to leggies? but never gained much recognition largely because his pace bowling was the same speed?
Snap
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@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
By the time other countries wise up (if that ever happens) this generation of players will have moved on, we won't be as good, results will fall, and we will get shunted back from any better fixtures we might have been able to access.
While these times are all sorts of awesome, the lack of recognition irks me.The lack of recognition for sure.
Not so sure about the future and I really hope that you are wrong re results. The next generation of players will be watching this. They know that there is money in cricket and they know that NZ can be successful. I'm more optimistic that we could have some sustained excellence. We aren't always going to have a KW, but we have done it with rugby and didn't always have a McCaw or Carter, so why not?
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Jason Floros (Queensland Bulls) was a pace bowler all through his age grade years in ACT but made the Queensland team as an off spinning allrounder.
In think that in these cases it is just that the pace aspect isn't top level but as an allround skilled cricketer they can add a few overs of spin to their bag of skills.
I guess that the original question was whether anyone is good at both and can fill a dual role in a team.
I imagine that Jamieson could develop a nasty top spinner. -
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Mark Waugh realised he was never gonna be as good at batting as Steve and switched from Medium to spin if I remember rightly.
In that case I hope Steve Waugh tries his hand at commentary very soon.
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@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
Colin Miller is probably the closest we've seen.
Shane Thompson transitioned from seam to spin and was not as good. Around 2003-4ish Scott Styris was semi-seriously trying to develop his offspin to become a second spinning option but I don't think we saw it at international level.
I think Chris Harris just sat on the fence between the two. Was he slow-slow-medium or quick spin?
He alternated between dibbly and dobbly as was the style in the mid 90s.
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@higgins said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@snowy The Black Caps opposition more often than not did have one or two like them though.
Was getting at the point that we can have future success now that we have the pathways, the money (IPL, etc) and the inspiration for young players. Christ it was depressing being a cricket fan in NZ for years, let alone aspiring to be a player. Hopefully that has or will change now.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
You'd think that a specialist seamer would be more likely to also make a good spinner compared to a batsman - but, none of them seem to bother. And I've never seen anyone in the nets at club cricket who didn't fuck around a bit bowling (or trying to bowl) a bit of spin.
Tony Greig switched from seam to spin sometimes and famously took a bunch of wickets in the West Indies that way.
The legendary Mike Procter used to bowl off spin well as well as bowling lightning quick off the wrong foot and making pots of runs. What a player he was.
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@kiwipie said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
You'd think that a specialist seamer would be more likely to also make a good spinner compared to a batsman - but, none of them seem to bother. And I've never seen anyone in the nets at club cricket who didn't fuck around a bit bowling (or trying to bowl) a bit of spin.
Tony Greig switched from seam to spin sometimes and famously took a bunch of wickets in the West Indies that way.
The legendary Mike Procter used to bowl off spin well as well as bowling lightning quick off the wrong foot and making pots of runs. What a player he was.
He coulda been better than Paddles, Beefy, Imran and Kapiti by some accounts. Sounds like a hell of a player robbed of a decent test career.
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@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I think it is temperament as to why people don't change. I was a fast bowler and bowling spin would be like retiring.
I was a fast bowler too when I talk about my cricket career.
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@reprobate said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Didn't Chris Harris pretty much switch from bowling seam to leggies? but never gained much recognition largely because his pace bowling was the same speed?
Yes, and yes. Exact same speed and bowling action (apart from wrist).
But changed from seam-up big banana in swingers, to leg spinners. But they were more rollers that angle in and straightened.
If you want to see his transition, then watch the Chris Harris part of this video at 4:53, which I made btw, as I'm an anorak.
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@crazy-horse said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I think it is temperament as to why people don't change. I was a fast bowler and bowling spin would be like retiring.
I was a fast bowler too when I talk about my cricket career.
It is a relative term.
I really just hurled a hard red ball at people. Very satisfying.
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@crazy-horse said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I have a memory of Hadlee bowling left arm spin in a test once. Anyone else remember that? Or have imagined it?
Yes. Also to plug my video.
Bowled to Robin Smith's big brother.
Here at 2 mins 47 sec:
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@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crazy-horse said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I think it is temperament as to why people don't change. I was a fast bowler and bowling spin would be like retiring.
I was a fast bowler too when I talk about my cricket career.
It is a relative term.
I really just hurled a hard red ball at people. Very satisfying.
You and your funny hobbies.
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@cyclops said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Ravindra could be another contender for all-rounder. Especially if he wants to break in to the side now that Young and Conway look to have locked up the top order spots even after Taylor retires, he could try and make it as a number 6 who gives us a spin option.
If this next test was just a normal test and not the WTC Final, I'm about 99% certain that Ravindra would be debuting as the batsman who can bowl spin, allowing the 4 seamers balance. Ajaz would be in the starting 11 for Asian tours only, and probably come in, if all else being constant, when Wagner retired.
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Throwing out a wild idea - how come more (any) fast bowlers don't also teach themselves to bowl spin? There's heaps of specialist batsman who seem to be able to roll down a few overs of spin in international cricket, but I can't really recall anyone since Gary Sobers who bowled specialist seam and spin (and Sir Garfield bowled both offspin and legspin as required - as well as being a sensational batsman).
Colin Miller is probably the closest we've seen.
Shane Thompson transitioned from seam to spin and was not as good. Around 2003-4ish Scott Styris was semi-seriously trying to develop his offspin to become a second spinning option but I don't think we saw it at international level.
Thomson was who I thought of when I saw the question, but agree that he was never that good. He switched because of injury IIRC.
That said, nothing wrong with 6/1/4 unless the pitch is very spin friendly.
