Exodus 2016

Catogrande

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pooler fan" data-cid="569989" data-time="1459889980">
<div>
I don't think there's too much wrong with the grandparent rule to be honest. 
One of my best friends from school in west Wales was born in Nottingham to a Welsh mum & English dad but moved to Wales when he was a toddler. He's now married to an English girl & living in Australia where his kids have been born. 
You wouldn't get a more fanatical Welsh rugby supporter & his kids are huge Wales fans too. They even have a smattering of the Welsh language which is odd with an Aussie accent. 
Without the grandparent rule would his kids be Welsh qualified ? They certainly don't think of themselves as Australian. 
People travel all over the world for work etc these days, far more than ever before which can make situations like this quite common I guess.
</div>
</blockquote>
I wonder if his kids will still be that way after they've gone through all the age grade rugby and are still in Aus at age 20 or so.
 
Anyway moot point really. There will always be individual cases that suggest things are OK/not OK but in general the Grandparent rule is being used purely as an excuse. I think it is one generation too far removed. If my Grandparents had have been born in another country I could then have represented that country but I've never even met my Grandparents, so where's the connection?
 
And before you ask, I have actually met my parents.

ulsterman

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="569979" data-time="1459867720">
<div>
Ulsterman, I don't see a problem with all that as far as it relates to the provinces, just the same as I don't see any great moral issue with the English or French clubs paying stupid amounts of cash for foreign players. I do think though that any concerted effort by ANY Union to actively source players from another country is downright piss-poor and ought to be sorted out sooner rather than later, no matter which Union it may be. I'm not altogether sure about how the French national team are doing in regard to recruitment of foreign players, but so far have seen little from England in this respect. There are certain players that have qualified on residency grounds and the obscure Grandmother rule and these I reckon ought to be sorted out too. Five years not three for residency. Parents not Grandparents for qualification via family. 
I'm not saying here that England have been exemplary in some of their selections Barrit is perhaps moot. Hard to deny his qualification as he is a UK passport holder but, given his history I'd rather not have picked him. Waldrom is another. He moved to the UK to play in a different environment and it was found he qualified through the Grandparent rule. He was not targeted by the RFU. However, as he is a dyed in the wool Kiwi I think we were wrong to pick him. He may have been deserving in regard to his performances and he may be qualified but was it "right"? IMO, No. Same for Hughes. Great player. Will be qualified for England soon. Should he be picked? IMO No. 
Hartley, Vunipolas and Tuilagi I have no problems with. They've been here for ages and have made the UK their home since they were kids or adolescents. Rokoduguni - again no problem with this one. He is a soldier first and foremost. If he is allowed to die for the UK I'm more than happy to let him play international rugby for any of the UK nations. Also he was not an established player that was targeted. 
I have to say I'm surprised at any fan defending the Project Player thing. I'd be devastated and ashamed if the RFU did something like that. I'd also question the sense in sending out a message to any aspiring genuine players that if we get the chance and see someone better than you elsewhere, then we'll dump you at a moment's notice. It just stinks from an ethical viewpoint and from a how to treat your own players viewpoint. I honestly think that if England were stacked with a load of foreign mercenaries I would lose any desire to see them play.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
To repeat myself - I basically agree with your point. Project players should require 5 or 6 years residency period.

Catogrande

OK mate. Repetition duly noted this time :-) I still don't like the whole idea of the project player though. There's a difference in someone moving to another country and then becoming eligible after 6 year or whatever, to a Union having a policy of searching out players. To me it just does not feel right.

ulsterman

A move from 3 to (say) 5 or 6 would probably remove most of that.
 
Key case in point - Wiehahn Herbst was 3rd-choice TH with the Sharks, and wasn't getting anywhere. Ulster offered him a 3-year contract (essentially gaming the current system.)
 
Now if the project period was 6 years instead of 3, I would say that Herbst may well still have taken that contract. He was a very good TH who was unfortunately stuck behind 2 even better THs, both for Sharks and South Africa, and would have a chance to play rugby and earn very good money. International rugby after 6 years? Might be a very very light sweetener at the end, but there's no way it would be in any way a decisive factor; nobody would forecast their performances for that timescale.

Catogrande

Yeah I take your point. A 5 or 6 year stand down would probably knock the stuffing out of the Project Player policy. I'm interested to know though, your views on the Project. Are you happy that your Union is taking such a stance? Do you feel even a little bit dis-enfranchised from your national team because of it? Not trolling at all, I am genuinely interested to know.

ulsterman

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="570185" data-time="1459953047">
<div>
Yeah I take your point. A 5 or 6 year stand down would probably knock the stuffing out of the Project Player policy. I'm interested to know though, your views on the Project. Are you happy that your Union is taking such a stance? Do you feel even a little bit dis-enfranchised from your national team because of it? 
Not trolling at all, I am genuinely interested to know.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
It depends, player to player. Someone like Jared Payne - a fullback who has been shifted to 13 purely to fill a gap at Ireland level, and has barely made an appearance for Ulster since qualifying for Ireland - feels a little plastic, as you get the feeling he's there for the professional challenge, rather than the "national" challenge. Other players though, like Stander, Robbie Diack (though his national involvement has been minimal) or Richardt Strauss have clearly got more buy-in (for some reason Saffers often seem to fit better in Ireland), and it's a better fit.
 
EDIT: Would also add, Bundee Aki would be another who would fit into the "genuine buy-in" bracket. It was partially a career consideration, yes, but he's very clearly becoming a Connacht man, which is nice to see.

gt12

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ulsterman" data-cid="570657" data-time="1460101449">
<div>
It depends, player to player. Someone like Jared Payne - a fullback who has been shifted to 13 purely to fill a gap at Ireland level, and has barely made an appearance for Ulster since qualifying for Ireland - feels a little plastic, as you get the feeling he's there for the professional challenge, rather than the "national" challenge. Other players though, like Stander, Robbie Diack (though his national involvement has been minimal) or Richardt Strauss have clearly got more buy-in (for some reason Saffers often seem to fit better in Ireland), and it's a better fit.
 
EDIT: Would also add, Bundee Aki would be another who would fit into the "genuine buy-in" bracket. It was partially a career consideration, yes, but he's very clearly becoming a Connacht man, which is nice to see.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
What? 100% career decision. You almost had me until you started on Bundee the Irish.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/bundee-aki-interview-i-m-a-different-person-with-that-jersey-on-1.2515795'>http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/bundee-aki-interview-i-m-a-different-person-with-that-jersey-on-1.2515795</a>
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
Akiâ€™s entire family, including his two daughters, still live in New Zealand
 
â€œIâ€™m here at the moment by myself. Itâ€™s tough knowing my family are back home. You just do what you have to do.â€
 
 
why leave the Chiefs? Doesnâ€™t make sense.
Family security is the overriding reason.
 
â€œAw, there was a lot of different reasons why I left. I just thought at the time it was the right time to move to try to do something different. Rugby is only a short-term career. I talked to a few friends, a few coaches and just went with it. As soon as I made the decision, I have never looked back. Itâ€™s paying off really well.â€
 
</blockquote>

Billy Tell

Let's not pretend Bundee is Irish. He was probably told he wasn't in the ABs frame (how he wasn't capped and Saili is was one of Hansen's less notable selections), and along came Eire with cash and a promise of international rugby...

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="570820" data-time="1460108964">
<div>
Let's not pretend Bundee is Irish. He was probably told he wasn't in the ABs frame (how he wasn't capped and Saili is was one of Hansen's less notable selections), and along came Eire with cash and a promise of international rugby...
</div>
</blockquote>
That's just silly, Saili was carving up the year he was selected for the ABs, Aki didn't really get close to AB level.

Billy Tell

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="570825" data-time="1460109624">
That's just silly, Saili was carving up the year he was selected for the ABs, Aki didn't really get close to AB level.</blockquote>
 
Nah Saili was a very ordinary player. Which has been confirmed in Ireland where Aki is playing much better for Connacht than Saili is for Munster. 
Definitely a dud AB selection and his tests were memorable for the wrong reasons. 
We agree to disagree I suppose 
(Don't think Aki would have been more than 1 or 2 caps either but he is better than Saili IMO)

Bones

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="570836" data-time="1460111103">
<div>
Nah Saili was a very ordinary player. Which has been confirmed in Ireland where Aki is playing much better for Connacht than Saili is for Munster.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
How on earth does that confirm form in 2013, Aki's first year in Super Rugby where he was doing fuck all, next to Saili who was in very good form for the Blues and in his 2nd year of Super rugby?

Billy Tell

OK, I can't be bothered getting into a big debate, I really don't care. I consider Saili a pretty ordinary player, with the occasional outstanding game, Aki is better.
 
You are welcome to disagree, and it's not skin off my nose.
 
I suppose I should throw in a "fuck" to give the post more gravitas.

Bones

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="570839" data-time="1460111731">
<div>
OK, I can't be bothered getting into a big debate, I really don't care. I consider Saili a pretty ordinary player, with the occasional outstanding game, Aki is better.
 
You are welcome to disagree, and it's not skin off my nose.
 
I suppose I should throw in a "fuck" to give the post more gravitas.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Nah he's not, this is obviously confirmed by Saili having a much more substantial Wikipedia page.

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="570836" data-time="1460111103">Nah Saili was a very ordinary player. Which has been confirmed in Ireland where Aki is playing much better for Connacht than Saili is for Munster.</blockquote> That's more a reflection on Munster's current issues IMO.

ulsterman

My point on Aki was, he's bought into the province since getting here, as opposed to (say) Payne, who is basically only involved in provincial games now in order to be ready for Test windows, which reduces the credibility of his commitment to the whole package.

gt12

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ulsterman" data-cid="570854" data-time="1460114767">My point on Aki was, he's bought into the province since getting here, as opposed to (say) Payne, who is basically only involved in provincial games now in order to be ready for Test windows, which reduces the credibility of his commitment to the whole package.</blockquote>
 
Is Aki available for Ireland already? Nope, so how can you compare him to Payne who is already in the team? 
I assume, that since he went there for his career, he is all about Connacht, right now. He clearly wants to play for Ireland, after giving up on the ABs (see link above). 
He was all about the Chiefs when he was there, until he wasn't. 
It's not that I'm bagging him, specifically, but I'm a bit lost about why you continue to suggest that these professional sportspeople, who are contracted to play for that team, are so involved, when:

His kids and family don't live there
he is trying for national honors 
And
he is paid to be there 
Come post about how great he is as a club man next year if he doesn't get selected for Ireland, and then doesn't decide that he can make better money in England or France.

African Monkey

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="570825" data-time="1460109624">
<div>
That's just silly, Saili was carving up the year he was selected for the ABs, Aki didn't really get close to AB level.
</div>
</blockquote>
He was but the problem with Saili was that he was more concerned with pulling off miracle plays every time he touched the ball. More often than not you would see his 4000 chips he's put in during a game land straight down the fullbacks throat or big cut out passes go straight into touch.

Billy Tell

Let's not forget Connacht won a bidding war with their provinicial rivlas for Aki's services.
 
I do think he has been committed to the Connacht cause, but as posted above if he doesn't play for Ireland (but I think he will, they'll cap him at the first opportunity to lock him in), will he stick around at Connacht...?
 
A non-exodus 2016: Kerr-Barlow staying on until at least 2017.

pukunui

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="570820" data-time="1460108964">
<div>
Let's not pretend Bundee is Irish. He was probably told he wasn't in the ABs frame (how he wasn't capped and Saili is was one of Hansen's less notable selections), and along came Eire with cash and a promise of international rugby...
</div>
</blockquote>
 
The fact is Aki was never good enough to be selected. The fact that Saili did get a test, and was proven not up to it, has nothing to do with that. The above statement implies Aki was robbed of his spot by Saili, he wasn't.
Of course all of that has nothing to do with which one is the better player. I would probably rate Aki higher however not by much and neither were ever that great in Super rugby.

Stargazer

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="570861" data-time="1460116565">
<div>
Let's not forget Connacht won a bidding war with their provinicial rivlas for Aki's services.
 
I do think he has been committed to the Connacht cause, but as posted above if he doesn't play for Ireland (but I think he will, they'll cap him at the first opportunity to lock him in), will he stick around at Connacht...?
 
A non-exodus 2016: Kerr-Barlow staying on until at least 2017.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
That re-signing already happened in July 2015: <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.allblacks.com/News/27708/kerr-barlow-signs-for-two-more-years'>http://www.allblacks.com/News/27708/kerr-barlow-signs-for-two-more-years</a>
 
Weird how that old media release re-appears on the Chiefs website (looking at the last two sentences, that text is also from July 2015): <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.chiefs.co.nz/news/news/latest-news/119-chiefs-re-sign-halfback'>http://www.chiefs.co.nz/news/news/latest-news/119-chiefs-re-sign-halfback</a>

The Silver Fern

Exodus 2016