Brumbies v Chiefs
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="569970" data-time="1459856897">
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<p>Further to this:<br><br>
Reds prop drops a knee onto Tahs' head = 1 week<br><br>
Tahs hooker clocks Toomua in his Ellyse-Perry-growling face = 1 week.<br><br>
What the fuck is with those two sentences if a choke hold is 3??</p>
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<p>this is what fucks everybody off the most. Yes, the movement of the bans up and down for how ever the judicial officer is feeling is really annoying and arbitrary.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But there is no fucking consistency across what a specific action will get you. As you say Nick, how is smacking a bloke in the face worth a third of choking someone out? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think league and AFL have it right with their grading up front. AFL is pretty specific with how things are graded, with the first judge was the action intentional or careless? then the impact is looked at (severe/high/medium/low) and then where the contact was made (high etc).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>they have a matrix that spells it out, ie if you have a deliberate act of high impact to the body, 3 weeks (2 with an early guilty plea). But, it's left open for the worst offences. So deliberate, high impact to the head? no upper limit. At that point the debate is purely based on how it was graded. That's a massive step in front of what rugby has now, where bans appear arbitrary across weeks or even games, let alone counties and competitions. </p> -
<p>The judiciary process IS spelled out and clear, it is the application of it to reach a point that is the problem.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In rugby it goes </p>
<p> </p>
<p>What is the act (charge). Each charge has clear range of minimums/maximums</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What is the 'entry point' low/medium/high</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What are the aggravating factors (is this currently a focus? Did injury result? Was this deliberate?)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What are the mitigating factors (is this a 'one-off' from a usually clean player, remorse, early guilty plea?)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Personally I think the early plea, remorse and character mitigations shouldn't come into it but no doubt they are there to stop some legal argument around harshness and future employment.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The system around early plea is bullshit. They come to a conclusion based on IF the guilty plea is entered then offer it to the player. If he accepts it he gets credited for making a plea that he wouldn't make if he thought the punishment was too high and defends the charge.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In order to try and reach this point that the player will accept the JO uses all the other parts to juggle around to a result. The entry point, the mitigations etc are manipulated to create a story that meets the rules and is acceptable to the player.</p> -
<p>I hate to go all conspiracy theorist, but I think the book needs to be thrown at the TMO too. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Leitch is on the ground, and the ref asks the TMO to look at anything to do with his neck. The TMO can't spot anything. Yet, social media almost instantly spots the choke, the tapping out and the perptrator. How in the fuck did the TMO not see this? What is the TMO paid to do?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Regardless of all citing procedures etc, an on-field red card has 10x the impact of a post match citing.</p> -
<p>aggravating and mitigating factors can fuck right off, neither are relevant in any way, and by nature allow the biggest amount of leeway to variation.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="569967" data-time="1459856253">
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<p>That's so fucking weak. I'm fucking sick of these external factors changing bans. Strangle someone? Should be 4 weeks whether you are a neck-tattooed bogan fuckwit, or a quiet tree hugging social activist.<br><br>
Genuine remorse? Fuck off. If they thought he could get off the story would have been different (like when he dropped the knee in the world cup).<br><br>
If he was from samoa he would have got a million years</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>criminals are always remorseful when they get caught, so remorse is a piss weak mitigating factor.</p> -
<p>"<span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">However, taking into account mitigating factors including the player’s early plea, his good character,"</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">His good character??? What the fuck does that even mean? Do the unions rank players on some sort of character scale?</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span>Which players have the judiciary decided have bad character?? Do they get an extra week?</span></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="570029" data-time="1459901957">
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<p>"<span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">However, taking into account mitigating factors including the player’s early plea, his good character,"</span></p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Early plea? I didn't see him copping to it on the field. That shit is an early plea.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="570029" data-time="1459901957">
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<p>"<span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">However, taking into account mitigating factors including the player’s early plea, his good character,"</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">His good character??? What the fuck does that even mean? Do the unions rank players on some sort of character scale?</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Which players have the judiciary decided have bad character?? Do they get an extra week?</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Based on past rulings I believe it goes:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>White = Good character</p>
<p>Brown = Bad character</p>
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<p>There is also an extra special rating:</p>
<p>White SJW = automatically half any potential ban being handed out.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="570044" data-time="1459905173">
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<p>Early plea? I didn't see him copping to it on the field. That shit is an early plea.</p>
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<p>Tana got vilified for not checking to see if BOD was ok after almost killing him....</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="570045" data-time="1459905347">
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<p>Based on past rulings I believe it goes:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>White = Good character</p>
<p>Brown = Bad character</p>
<p> </p>
<p>There is also an extra special rating:</p>
<p>White SJW = automatically half any potential ban being handed out.</p>
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<p>Don't forget if your name is Martin Leslie and you play for Scotland. 12 weeks.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="570057" data-time="1459908396">
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<p>Tana got vilified for not checking to see if BOD was ok after almost killing him....</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>And how the hell did Kev escape there?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="570036" data-time="1459902634"><p>So the Reds prop and Latu didn't miss any games because their ban occurred during the bye and so they "missed" a game for their club.<br><br>
Pocock will "miss" a game for his club as well.<br><br>
How is this still happening in 2016?</p></blockquote>
You are right on Latu and Faagase, but Pocock got 2 games and as they have the bye next week, it is effectively 3 weeks. Read the official statement.<br><br>
But I think your point stays, they should either count the bye as a game every time, or never, either way, not like this. -
<p>David Pocock has posted a public apology on his website:<br>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
<p><strong><span style="font-size:18px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Apology</span></span></strong><br>
April 6, 2016<br><br><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Yesterday I faced the judiciary for the first time in my rugby career. I am incredibly disappointed with my actions. I endeavour to play the game I love in a way that reflects the kind of toughness and decency I think rugby can teach us. </span></span><br><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">On Saturday night I did not live up to those standards, placing Michael Leitch in danger by binding on his neck in a maul. It was not my intention to hurt Michael, but in these sorts of circumstances it is not intention that matters. I am grateful that World Rugby and SANZAAR are concerned about making the game safer for all of us. </span></span><br><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">I would like to take this opportunity to apologise again to Michael. And to apologise to the Chiefs, Brumbies and all those who follow rugby. I'd also like to apologise to my team mates who I will let down over the next few weeks while suspended.</span></span><br><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Dave</span></span></p>
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<p> <br>
I don't belong to the Pocock haters on this forum and I do believe that his apology is genuine.<br>
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I agree that there is little consistency in the judicial decisions and think that, especially in the case of intentional offending (punching someone in the face, dropping a knee on someone's head), punishments are low. I don't think Pocock's offending was "intentional", but it looked "reckless" for an experienced player. Considering the other punishments that have been handed out this season, I think a 3 week/2 SR games ban is okay(ish).</p> -
I just read it. Then I read the comments and I felt sick. Talk about cyber-fellating.<br><br>
Oh David, you are the greatest human being ever. We are truly blessed to walk the same earth as you. -
<p>Get rid of the lawyers and the ex judges that make up these disciplinary panels, they are the ones that are Fcuking it up.</p>
