Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November
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@Nepia He might be a bit slow and need a week or two of remedial classes.
But, he doesn't look like someone who's playing within himself. Even that dumb slap was him trying to make a difference.
From what i can see, Patty T. simply hasn't unleashed himself.
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@taniwharugby said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
TBF they were v Aus, has he had cards against anyone else?
So you reckon it's selective idiocy?
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@Chris-B said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Nepia He might be a bit slow and need a week or two of remedial classes.
But, he doesn't look like someone who's playing within himself. Even that dumb slap was him trying to make a difference.
From what i can see, Patty T. simply hasn't unleashed himself.
Hahaha, I love the way the Barrett bros idiocy gets minimised on the Fern.
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@Chris-B he did have one where he was outstanding didnt he, although was that off the bench?
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@taniwharugby No use asking me - I've got a completely shit memory for what happened in most tests!
I've just banked a lot of observations of him not making much impact.
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@Chris-B I think he had a few handy ones off the bench, then one outstanding one, but agree he has struggled to impose himself this year, which is disappointing as he looked like he was ready to explode into INternational rugby after a stellar super rugby campaign and no Brodie to block his way.
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@taniwharugby yeah, a feature of Tuipulotu off the bench is how often he comes on and steals the first lineout, that's my predominant memory.
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@Bones said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@taniwharugby yeah, a feature of Tuipulotu off the bench is how often he comes on and steals the first lineout, that's my predominant memory.
What was apparent was that when ABs started throwing to Savea the lineout worked better. Sam is top class, of course, but Patty is marginal at test level. Sotutu is good test option.
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@Chris-B said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@nzzp Also being fair, today's probably about the second time I've mentioned Romano in two years.
I probably commented on his performance vs Ta$man at the time.
Edit: I don't mind being the President, Founding Member and Principal Spokesman of the Will Jordan fan club!
Shit!
I've had a hangover today.
Can't remember much about last night, but I've just logged on and club membership is through the roof!
And, while I've been nursing myself back to health there has been a coup.
I've been removed as President and some unimaginative bastard calling himself "Ian F." has declared himself El Presidente.
Strange character - prattling some line that, "Thanks to Will, I'm an Era not an Error after all".
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@PecoTrain said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
The thing which frustrates me is this is the same-old, same-old.
The problems we saw from 2017 onward are still there and it shows against a team which can out-muscle and out-discipline us. The strategy doesn't seem to have changed much either - go down the blind, spin it into the midfield where the likes of BB can exploit the gaps and fast counter attacks. That and occasional shit kicks and poor discipline.
Bullshit - the problem is that we don't try to build pressure on the opposition before running the ball. Seeing a gap early and exploiting it is a fantastic skill but running into it only to get smashed by the opposition and turnover the ball multiple times SHOULDN'T be part of the game plan.
I don't blame Foster for all of this as he's inherited a lot of the problems and you have to give him credit for some good stuff like making the lineout drive a potent weapon and actually trying to bring some continuity to team selection. But he really needs to have a good, hard look at his tactics, his team plan/style of play development and, above all, get the players heads right, both individually and collectively.
And I can't fault Cane either for his on-field attitude. Sure, he's still learning and some of his decisions aren't good, but he's giving 120% and is at least focussing on controlling the team and the game. Do Senior players like Sam Whitelock, Nugget and Beauden Barrett need to step up and get more involved both on and off the field?
I blame Foster and his coaching team - we have brilliant individuals that don't play well as a team and seem to have lost a lot of confidence in the space of a few weeks. Playing people out of position just compounds that. Our handling errors and lack of awareness during the game (Whitelock offloading to Lomax where Lomax just watches the ball go past him as an example) makes me question what the players are doing during training because they don't seem that familiar with how each other plays in the pitch.
I'm unsure Cane and Ardie can play well as a unit - I assume Foster subbed Frizell because of discipline warnings rather than Ardie as Frizell/Sotutu played well together versus Australia while I wouldn't have even noticed Ardie on the pitch if it wasn't for a late turnover.
And Ardie leads on to the real issue in the team - our mix of experience. Our senior players put in their shifts and generally play very well (Whitelock/Nugget/Moody/Coles/Beauden/Cane) but its the guys that are the next step down and have 20+ tests experience that are really struggling.
Jordie had a poor game, ALB was pretty anonymous, Goodhue did enough to be an average 12 today, Mo'unga was ordinary today, Ardie was ordinary, Tuipulotu was anonymous. And the majority of their subs don't look much better - they generally turn in average at best performances. Reiko's performances starting or off the bench are error ridden. Taylor is likely as good as Coles. Add in TJs performance last week and it looks awful.
As our senior guys start hanging up their boots, what will the next generation look like? At the moment it looks like we need a major shift to younger players because unless things improve, we will end up with a glut of journeymen.
Enough ranting....
This post is well worth rereading.
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@pakman worth reading as seeing what the point was then compared to now for sure.
Can be taken a few different ways though.
One way would be that those “anonymous “ players have either been discarded as prime options (PT) or given chances to come right (RI) and it is paying off. A disrupted schedule, availabilities, strong opposition and lack of home games haven’t helped at all but if the last game really was stuff coming together you could trace back on the building to a point like this one.
We still have depth issues at lock to work on but cards have fallen so that we haven’t been able to offer many opportunities there. -
@pakman said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@PecoTrain said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
The thing which frustrates me is this is the same-old, same-old.
The problems we saw from 2017 onward are still there and it shows against a team which can out-muscle and out-discipline us. The strategy doesn't seem to have changed much either - go down the blind, spin it into the midfield where the likes of BB can exploit the gaps and fast counter attacks. That and occasional shit kicks and poor discipline.
Bullshit - the problem is that we don't try to build pressure on the opposition before running the ball. Seeing a gap early and exploiting it is a fantastic skill but running into it only to get smashed by the opposition and turnover the ball multiple times SHOULDN'T be part of the game plan.
I don't blame Foster for all of this as he's inherited a lot of the problems and you have to give him credit for some good stuff like making the lineout drive a potent weapon and actually trying to bring some continuity to team selection. But he really needs to have a good, hard look at his tactics, his team plan/style of play development and, above all, get the players heads right, both individually and collectively.
And I can't fault Cane either for his on-field attitude. Sure, he's still learning and some of his decisions aren't good, but he's giving 120% and is at least focussing on controlling the team and the game. Do Senior players like Sam Whitelock, Nugget and Beauden Barrett need to step up and get more involved both on and off the field?
I blame Foster and his coaching team - we have brilliant individuals that don't play well as a team and seem to have lost a lot of confidence in the space of a few weeks. Playing people out of position just compounds that. Our handling errors and lack of awareness during the game (Whitelock offloading to Lomax where Lomax just watches the ball go past him as an example) makes me question what the players are doing during training because they don't seem that familiar with how each other plays in the pitch.
I'm unsure Cane and Ardie can play well as a unit - I assume Foster subbed Frizell because of discipline warnings rather than Ardie as Frizell/Sotutu played well together versus Australia while I wouldn't have even noticed Ardie on the pitch if it wasn't for a late turnover.
And Ardie leads on to the real issue in the team - our mix of experience. Our senior players put in their shifts and generally play very well (Whitelock/Nugget/Moody/Coles/Beauden/Cane) but its the guys that are the next step down and have 20+ tests experience that are really struggling.
Jordie had a poor game, ALB was pretty anonymous, Goodhue did enough to be an average 12 today, Mo'unga was ordinary today, Ardie was ordinary, Tuipulotu was anonymous. And the majority of their subs don't look much better - they generally turn in average at best performances. Reiko's performances starting or off the bench are error ridden. Taylor is likely as good as Coles. Add in TJs performance last week and it looks awful.
As our senior guys start hanging up their boots, what will the next generation look like? At the moment it looks like we need a major shift to younger players because unless things improve, we will end up with a glut of journeymen.
Enough ranting....
This post is well worth rereading.
In my defence, I was much more optimistic in those days and thought Fozzie and his coaching team could do enough to get results if a few of the players stood up.
In hindsight I still think my point around Cane and Ardie stands - they are both trying to play a roaming loose forward role, Cane predominantly on defence and Ardie predominantly on turnovers/attack but they don't work well with any of the 6's as a loose unit. And of the two, I'd drop Cane - his workrate is phenomenal but he "just" tackles players versus either attacking the ball or providing a good platform for another player to attack the ball in the tackle. And Fozzie (and probably our options at 8 and 6) have no idea how to get Cane/Ardie/another working well other than playing SB as an extra lock and shoring up the tight 5 because they will be doing a lot of work on defence without the pressure at tackle time. But Fosters one defining decision when he started was making Cane captain so he can't change that now, particularly given the options (Whitelock...)
Basically, Fozzie still doesn't know how he wants the team to play other than to play some free flowing rugby and win or what he's looking for in the players (well he might, but they've all retired and the chances of finding the next McCaw, Carter, Kaino, Nonu, Conrad Smith, and younger versions of Aaron Smith, Sam Whitlock and BBBR in next years Super Rugby are pretty low) he has and the result is under performance.
Or maybe this post should just be buried again until post-RWC.
