Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November
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@pakman said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
On the subject of Angus, quite apart from the Jordie penalty, which was marginal, there were two mistaken scrum penalties, one of which led to 3 points, the slap reversal and the Whitelock maul penalty at end and which also led to 3 points. That's quite a few dodgy calls.
Notwithstanding that, had Abs taken their opportunites, none of that would have mattered.
As much as it pains me because I consider him not Test standard as a referee (hardly SR standard either), but retribution is seen as worse by almost every referee these days. So the reversal of the slap should be expected and a good way to enforce to teams not to take the law into their own hands, thus preventing a game from deteriorating into a series of brawls where rugby might eventually break out.
The problem of course is if refs ignore the provocation. Then that enables one side to constantly inflame the situation and the other to feel like they're being unfairly judged at every penalty whether deserved or not.
A better ref than Gardner would've looked for those niggles and penalised them early. He also wouldn't provide any sustenance to the theatrics of the soccer divers.
tl;dr he's a shit ref but you need to have a performance like Egon to have any chance of meaningful censure these days. So don't rise to the bait.
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@antipodean AFG being our best ref is yet another indication that rugby is up shit creek here, at the moment.
There are a couple of younger guys I've seen in Subbies and Premier footy here in Sydney who look the goods BUT it depends on how the politics play out.
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@NTA said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@antipodean AFG being our best ref is yet another indication that rugby is up shit creek here, at the moment.
There are a couple of younger guys I've seen in Subbies and Premier footy here in Sydney who look the goods BUT it depends on how the politics play out.
Whatever happened to Aussie Steve Walsh?
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@NTA said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@antipodean AFG being our best ref is yet another indication that rugby is up shit creek here, at the moment.
the quality of reffing has been poor for a long time in NZ and Aus. Fair play thouhg, the laws aren't easy to interpret
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@nzzp said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
the laws aren't easy to interpret
think that is a major issue, so much interpretation.
But then when all 3 match officials miss such simple things like forward passes, knock ons, it's little wonder they get the big stuff wrong too.
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@pakman said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
On the subject of Angus, quite apart from the Jordie penalty, which was marginal, there were two mistaken scrum penalties, one of which led to 3 points, the slap reversal and the Whitelock maul penalty at end and which also led to 3 points. That's quite a few dodgy calls.
Notwithstanding that, had Abs taken their opportunites, none of that would have mattered.
I'm going to disagree on the Jordie penalty - he wasn't close enough to get the ball with his attempted charge so if he hit the kicker he was probably going to get penalised. Refs have been penalising this behaviour for years to cut down on late hits so its no real change. Jordie rolled the dice and lost. It was compounded by Frizell leaving his feet at a ruck which looked like a mistake and Coles slapping someone and then the ref giving the team a warning. All of that followed the ref warning the Argentine captain being penalised and warned for his actions. The difference was the Argentinian players actually stopped doing dumb things.
How many times has the opposite played out under Read or McCaw and their respective coaches? The AB's get warned for a penalty offence, don't do it again and the ref starts pulling up the opposition for the same thing. But we overlook that because it's the other teams problem.
This goes back to 2007 - if we hand the refs the chance to change the game, it might not play out the way we want.
Pretending that the issue is how the Argentine players fooled the ref or how the ref made his decisions ignores the fact that the element that the AB's could control was there discipline and they didn't.
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@Kirwan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@NTA said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@antipodean AFG being our best ref is yet another indication that rugby is up shit creek here, at the moment.
There are a couple of younger guys I've seen in Subbies and Premier footy here in Sydney who look the goods BUT it depends on how the politics play out.
Whatever happened to Aussie Steve Walsh?
Rode off into the sunset at some point. Refs these days aren't going into their 40s too often and he's 48 now. Stopped back around 2014?
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@kev said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I know that everyone is climbing into Foster. The cracks were there at the World Cup. They need a rethink. We have to find a way to win the contact and that means different players.
Who?
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@booboo said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@kev said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I know that everyone is climbing into Foster. The cracks were there at the World Cup. They need a rethink. We have to find a way to win the contact and that means different players.
Who?
Players need a vision a decent game plan and faith in the people coaching them to buy into the coaching philosophy I don't see that.
Pick 36 more players under Foster same outcome IMO.
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@Chris said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@booboo said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@kev said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I know that everyone is climbing into Foster. The cracks were there at the World Cup. They need a rethink. We have to find a way to win the contact and that means different players.
Who?
Players need a vision a decent game plan and faith in the people coaching them to buy into the coaching philosophy I don't see that.
Pick 36 more players under Foster same outcome IMO.
Different issue though.
I don't see too many outside of those already in the squad standing out. The best players available (with one or two injury exceptions) are there.
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@booboo said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I don't see too many outside of those already in the squad standing out. The best players available (with one or two injury exceptions) are there.
Yep. Now we need to get them to perform, and I am covinced that they are good enough.
Aus have a draw and a win with a new coach against us. Wales have fallen off a cliff with a new coach and we aren't doing much better.
Ledesma could be considered new too I think, given how much they have actually played. Galthie is a new coach too, going bloody well.Pretty sure that I know where the problem is...
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@Snowy Australia?
2020, We are unbeaten in NZ!
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@taniwharugby Only a 50% win ratio tho. Kind of shit.
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@NTA bro, you are one of those negative fluffybunnies arent you, it's all in how you tell the story...Unbeaten is way better way to sell it!
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@taniwharugby said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Snowy Australia?
2020, We are unbeaten in NZ!
Yeah, we are lucky with the covid thing. It could have been everybody.
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@taniwharugby marketing was never my strong point.
Because marketing people are soulless shills.
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@booboo said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Chris said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@booboo said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@kev said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I know that everyone is climbing into Foster. The cracks were there at the World Cup. They need a rethink. We have to find a way to win the contact and that means different players.
Who?
Players need a vision a decent game plan and faith in the people coaching them to buy into the coaching philosophy I don't see that.
Pick 36 more players under Foster same outcome IMO.
Different issue though.
I don't see too many outside of those already in the squad standing out. The best players available (with one or two injury exceptions) are there.
There is none ,I think we have selected the best players.The issue is what you can achieve with them not much by the look of this coach.
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@booboo Ideally you have both size and athleticism. But if in doubt go for athleticism. I would start Sotutu at number eight as he ticks both boxes and looks more powerful than Ardie. Frizell is ok but we have lots of options at 6 with Akira, Grace, Robinson, Barrett. Locks and Props seem to be where we might be weak. I think BBBR was starting to fade before he went to Japan so he may not provide a solution. Barrett probably lacks a bit of size but would be a smaller more athletic lock.
The analysis during the week was interesting, suggesting that we carried too much and missed the gaps out wide. When we lost in the WC I remember thinking the rush defence had done a great job in removing those options. So whether we need to better with second man play, going wide quicker, altering our depth there will be some tactical solutions as well.
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@kev said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@booboo Ideally you have both size and athleticism. But if in doubt go for athleticism. I would start Sotutu at number eight as he ticks both boxes and looks more powerful than Ardie. Frizell is ok but we have lots of options at 6 with Akira, Grace, Robinson, Barrett. Locks and Props seem to be where we might be weak. I think BBBR was starting to fade before he went to Japan so he may not provide a solution. Barrett probably lacks a bit of size but would be a smaller more athletic lock.
The analysis during the week was interesting, suggesting that we carried too much and missed the gaps out wide. When we lost in the WC I remember thinking the rush defence had done a great job in removing those options. So whether we need to better with second man play, going wide quicker, altering our depth there will be some tactical solutions as well.
I doubt that. Ardies explosive leg drive is ridicuous at times especially for a relatively small guy.
