'Super Rugby' 2021
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I had better things to do but still looked and it appears that Australia has consistently had a good team in Super Rugby. Often with another midpack, but almost always with a couple of cellar dwellers. Sometimes 80% in the bottom half.
The bloat in Super Rugby is correlated with this. From a revenue perspective more teams meant more fixtures so the TV revenue was higher. I felt the quality took a dramatic fall after the 2011 RWC and again after 2015. To make new franchises competitive the depth and overall quality of existing teams fell.
Once people stop watching the product is worth less. For me the quality needs to be high to get people viewing again. That excludes the Force and Rebels, neither of which would beat even the Chiefs right now.
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@Nepia said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Snowy said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Starting again would be retarded.
I prefer intellectually challenged!
I'm pretty sure I didn't even tard a first time, so I definitely didn't redo it.
Landers were always my second team, I moved to the other side of the world so wasn't immersed in the capital, Hammett eroded my love of the canes and ditched players I had a real connection to. I found myself enjoying the Landers more and switched naturally...then they go and win a fucken title! How could I go back. Nice to have a connection with the old man on it too. Bonesetta loves her canes though, as does my ma and bro.
To make some family fun we've assigned the chiefs, crusaders and blues to Bonesettas's father, mother and brother.
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@Snowy said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
if RA are so adamant they have five good team then lets run two separate comps and the top 2 teams from each can meet in a playoff series, see how the results and their finances go
That works for me. I won't bother with much of the Aussie comp though.
Probably the three good teams.
This actually makes a lot of sense when you consider what grabs the public's attention and also produced the best rugby - the derby matches. You could effectively run three comps - Super Rugby Aotearoa, Super Rugby Australia and then the Super Rugby Champions Cup, which would be like the semis and final for the top 4 teams. If you could squeeze in the Jaapies too, you could have a 6 team Champions Cup and the domestic parts of the competition could be run as the local unions wish. Why does NZ care if the Kings or Force are shit, when none of our teams have to play them or travel there?
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@junior said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Snowy said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
if RA are so adamant they have five good team then lets run two separate comps and the top 2 teams from each can meet in a playoff series, see how the results and their finances go
That works for me. I won't bother with much of the Aussie comp though.
Probably the three good teams.
This actually makes a lot of sense when you consider what grabs the public's attention and also produced the best rugby - the derby matches. You could effectively run three comps - Super Rugby Aotearoa, Super Rugby Australia and then the Super Rugby Champions Cup, which would be like the semis and final for the top 4 teams. If you could squeeze in the Jaapies too, you could have a 6 team Champions Cup and the domestic parts of the competition could be run as the local unions wish. Why does NZ care if the Kings or Force are shit, when none of our teams have to play them or travel there?
which is what the conferences could/should have been ....but then they kept the cross conference games so not only kept the shit stuff (the travel/weird times) but added an un-even draw...
also would provide a more natural domestic comp for Aussie, if they want to add a six team in ten years who cares
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@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Once people stop watching the product is worth less. For me the quality needs to be high to get people viewing again.
Hell, quality has to be high to prepare for the internationals. No surprise the AB quality dropped from 15-19 with weird expansions to 18 teams, diluted quality, complex pools, and no one giving a relative toss.
The SRA has been sensational - players get properly tested every week, flaws get exposed adn players get better. I'm loving it
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@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Nepia said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Snowy said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Starting again would be retarded.
I prefer intellectually challenged!
I'm pretty sure I didn't even tard a first time, so I definitely didn't redo it.
Landers were always my second team, I moved to the other side of the world so wasn't immersed in the capital, Hammett eroded my love of the canes and ditched players I had a real connection to. I found myself enjoying the Landers more and switched naturally...then they go and win a fucken title! How could I go back. Nice to have a connection with the old man on it too. Bonesetta loves her canes though, as does my ma and bro.
To make some family fun we've assigned the chiefs, crusaders and blues to Bonesettas's father, mother and brother.
I went to pretty much every Chiefs home game in 1996-1997 and then like you the Hammettuer completely eroded my love of the Canes ... you were lucky you weren't here to hear him go on weekend radio and lay into the players, and then have Alama have to go on a day later and try and back track those comments. And like you, the moment I switched to the Chiefs they won, but I was actually pretty confident they'd do well after picking up Rennie.
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@junior said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@KiwiMurph said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I also don't get the ARU position.
They have 4 teams, currently, not 5.
Surely, from the 2 CEOs perspective - it's a case of comparing the 2 TV deals. Working out how many teams each can support with that money to create competive squads against each other, and competitive salaries against prospective NH deals.
I'm not thrilled that this is where it is at (still only 5 NZ teams and having to join with Australia). But diluting it with 2 weak Australian teams in expansion cities will be awful.
Honestly. Who can possibly go for war for a team call "Western" with nickname called "Force" who wear the same kit as 2 of the other 9 definites. Get the fuck out you bland fluffybunnies.
I can see why the Aussies want 5 sides.
Their broadcast deal is so low that they want 5 teams to at least keep up a national presence and so they can have content to sell to the broadcaster.
Otherwise they might as well go it alone with their own domestic comp.
Arguably the Force have the best fanbase of all the Aussie teams.
It makes sense from a TV perspective. Playing in Perth, they potentially have something to sell to the Saffas. Plus, I bet they're planning on Twiggy bearing
someall of the financial load.FTFY
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@Nepia said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Nepia said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Snowy said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Starting again would be retarded.
I prefer intellectually challenged!
I'm pretty sure I didn't even tard a first time, so I definitely didn't redo it.
Landers were always my second team, I moved to the other side of the world so wasn't immersed in the capital, Hammett eroded my love of the canes and ditched players I had a real connection to. I found myself enjoying the Landers more and switched naturally...then they go and win a fucken title! How could I go back. Nice to have a connection with the old man on it too. Bonesetta loves her canes though, as does my ma and bro.
To make some family fun we've assigned the chiefs, crusaders and blues to Bonesettas's father, mother and brother.
I went to pretty much every Chiefs home game in 1996-1997 and then like you the Hammettuer completely eroded my love of the Canes ... you were lucky you weren't here to hear him go on weekend radio and lay into the players, and then have Alama have to go on a day later and try and back track those comments. And like you, the moment I switched to the Chiefs they won, but I was actually pretty confident they'd do well after picking up Rennie.
...id say going to watch the chiefs probably eroded your love of the canes too...i probably would have cone and watched the canes....
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Nepia said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Nepia said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Snowy said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Starting again would be retarded.
I prefer intellectually challenged!
I'm pretty sure I didn't even tard a first time, so I definitely didn't redo it.
Landers were always my second team, I moved to the other side of the world so wasn't immersed in the capital, Hammett eroded my love of the canes and ditched players I had a real connection to. I found myself enjoying the Landers more and switched naturally...then they go and win a fucken title! How could I go back. Nice to have a connection with the old man on it too. Bonesetta loves her canes though, as does my ma and bro.
To make some family fun we've assigned the chiefs, crusaders and blues to Bonesettas's father, mother and brother.
I went to pretty much every Chiefs home game in 1996-1997 and then like you the Hammettuer completely eroded my love of the Canes ... you were lucky you weren't here to hear him go on weekend radio and lay into the players, and then have Alama have to go on a day later and try and back track those comments. And like you, the moment I switched to the Chiefs they won, but I was actually pretty confident they'd do well after picking up Rennie.
...id say going to watch the chiefs probably eroded your love of the canes too...i probably would have cone and watched the canes....
I saw lots of Canes games in those early days too - went to the first ever game and a bunch of games at Athletic Park. I was living in the Tron at the time so could easily go to those Chiefs home games. They were crap but they had Bunce and Little.
I actually went to nearly every Wellington home game in the Hammetuers first year, every day we'd arrive in Welly to nice sunny weather and by the time the game started it would be sideways rain ... I may have deserted even without the Hammettuer.
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@Bones said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Nepia ahhh Friday nights in the capital, go for a beer after work...."shall we go watch the canes?". Head to a rugby match less than ten mins walk away. Awesome.
If I moved home I might switch back...
We were driving down from Palmy, but would usually head down about lunch time, have a few work meetings or go to Te Papa if the nieces were coming, eat some good Malay and then go and get saturated at the game. Stop in Paraparaumu for takeaways on the way back.
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I agree that a domestic competition focused on derbies, followed by an international franchise competition would be the best of both worlds.
So we could have a 5 team super Aotearoa comp followed by a championship round with the other competitions (let’s say Super Oz, Super SA, Super Pacific).
My only concern is that money would flow to the teams who play in that second round and you could get a Matthew effect established pretty quickly.
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@gt12 we kind of have that now with playoffs etc
Is like to see something lie a daft, something in the lead up and potentially to help boost team on poor form
i kind of miss the old day when the free agents were announced, those not needed by their home franchises, we got a few good bloke through that
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@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@junior let's agree to disagree. The likelihood of us ever finding out what they'd do if the Rebels had a good run is pretty bloody slight!
Fair enough. I agree in principle it's all there to be successful. When the franchise first started, there was a huge amount of excitement and anticipation around town and they got some pretty good crowds in the first year, despite their poor unfurled record. I think what really hurt them early, without that early success, was the AFL went even more mental and we've had a period of relative success for some of the massive Melbourne clubs (Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn, Richmond), which makes it hard to get new eyeballs from that market. Also, playing Friday night games, while suiting the local rugby community, who have school / club rugby commitments the next day, makes it hard to get new viewers when you've got an AFL blockbuster at the MCG on at the same time.
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I'm not sure how it could be structured, but I also like the idea of a Super championship and Super plate (with different sponsors this wouldn't sound too strange)
So for example:
Championship: Top two ranked teams from each competition play quarter, semi, final
Plate: 3rd and 4th ranked teams from each competition play quarter, semi, final
That would mean that one team would miss out, but the local competitions could have some systems in place to make sure that these guys didn't perenially stay there?
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@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I had better things to do but still looked and it appears that Australia has consistently had a good team in Super Rugby. Often with another midpack, but almost always with a couple of cellar dwellers. Sometimes 80% in the bottom half.
The bloat in Super Rugby is correlated with this. From a revenue perspective more teams meant more fixtures so the TV revenue was higher. I felt the quality took a dramatic fall after the 2011 RWC and again after 2015. To make new franchises competitive the depth and overall quality of existing teams fell.
Once people stop watching the product is worth less. For me the quality needs to be high to get people viewing again. That excludes the Force and Rebels, neither of which would beat even the Chiefs right now.
The Chiefs aren't actually a bad team though. The 5 New Zealand teams normally do well so we have to accept that.
A 5 team professional competition isn't sustainable and will get stale quick. Plus the players don't support having all of these derbies. There are really two options for NZ Rugby:
a) Don't go with Australia and create one or multiple Pacific/Japanese teams which will dilute quality.
b) Allow in four Australian teams (and perhaps one Pacific/Japanese team) which will dilute quality. -
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I’m not sure where you get that from, the corporate teams will want in - it’s just working out the right model.
One option would be to let the top two teams join an international finals series, or divide out 5 of the best teams to a Super league conference and the remaining into one or two conferences of the J league.
Top League meets Super Rugby: bold plan to keep Japan involved
As the SANZAAR nations try to map out Super Rugby in the post-COVID-19 world, a bold plan to include the best Japanese teams is on the table.
