Hang on a sec

NTA

Public pool is different to walking home. Drowning hazard = parental supervision. 
So, why don't YOU fuck off?

taniwharugby

When I take my kids to the pools, I am not constantly hovering over my 10yr old (have to keep an eye on my 7 yr old) although if I havent seen him for a few minutes I will look for him, and then there is the holiday programme at the pools where it is the teachers/supervisors keeping an eye on them, so there are reasons why he might be there like that.

NTA

I'm similar with the boy - at the local pool, I keep whichever pool he's at in line of sight, but I don't helicopter by any means. Look up, can I see him? Get up and look if I need to. Stray kick to the head, some fuckwit older kids bullying him, whatever. Drowning hazard. 
With girl, the local pool rules state you must keep any kid under 10 within arm's length. I don't agree with that, but I'm ready to go in after her at a moment's notice. 
Radically different situation to walking home from school or going down the park with friends. And even the school/park situation depends on where you live, but usually I don't mind that in our neighbourhood. 
This fucking scum had enough time to drag a 10yo kid into a bathroom, and rape him, while NO-ONE heard him screaming for help. 
So there was zero supervision, clearly. And that isn't a crime, like rape, but it's still not excusable.

Rancid Schnitzel

Nick, you have no idea what the situation was or where the parents may or may not have been. Pretty farked up to blame them for anything without knowing any of the details.
 
As to throwing the book at this degenerate. Well I doubt he can be deported, because he probably claims he comes from ISIS ruled Iraq. If he doesn't he probably claims political asylum or some other bullshit and some cock sucking "human rights" lawyer will appeal the process the entire way. So the Austrian taxpayer will be up for his jail time and are then probably stuck with the farker. In other words, the consequence of allowing undocumented, unvetted migrants into your country. What could possibly go wrong?

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="556898" data-time="1454798806">
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Public pool is different to walking home. Drowning hazard = parental supervision. 
So, why don't YOU fuck off?
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No. You are just squirming. There were clearly life guards there. And we are talking about sexual assault not potential drowning. Do you let your kids swim at school? The life guards are there to look at the swimming area, the kids were not at risk of drowing. So drop that red herring. Unless you never ever let your kids swim unless you are watching them.
I think it bloody retarded to somehow blame the parents for the sexual assault of a 10 year old boy. Wether it is at swimming pools or anywhere else.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="556905" data-time="1454802003">
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I'm similar with the boy - at the local pool, I keep whichever pool he's at in line of sight, but I don't helicopter by any means. Look up, can I see him? Get up and look if I need to. Stray kick to the head, some fuckwit older kids bullying him, whatever. Drowning hazard. 
With girl, the local pool rules state you must keep any kid under 10 within arm's length. I don't agree with that, but I'm ready to go in after her at a moment's notice. 
Radically different situation to walking home from school or going down the park with friends. And even the school/park situation depends on where you live, but usually I don't mind that in our neighbourhood. 
This fucking scum had enough time to drag a 10yo kid into a bathroom, and rape him, while NO-ONE heard him screaming for help. 
So there was zero supervision, clearly. And that isn't a crime, like rape, but it's still not excusable.
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And your kid never swims at school? How old before he will be allowed to swim with other qualified adults watching him? 
 
Some little kid has just been badly damaged by a predator, his parents will be going through a grinder and there are people ;like you blaming them.. because they let there 10 year old boy go swimming at a public pool in the middle of the day supervised by life guards. Seriously.. check yourself. 
 
Pretty simple question. Have you EVER let your kids swim without you or your wife being there? If the answer is yes.. then you are no different to the parents of that kid, if the answer is no.. then you are a monumental helicopter parent with severe trust issues.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="556918" data-time="1454806186">
I think it bloody retarded to somehow blame the parents for the sexual assault of a 10 year old boy. Wether it is at swimming pools or anywhere else.</blockquote>
 
I think it's I think it's absolutely fucking retarded you think I'm blaming the parents for the action of the rapist. 
Do you think I'm absolving him of any wrongdoing? Because I haven't done that, not once. It completely fucking irrelevant if he's a migrant, I might add, but I don't expect some to focus on anything else given recent discussion on here. 
I'm talking about parental responsibility. If the kids was in their care that day, they'll be fucking distraught. If was in someone else's care, they'll be rightfully fucking livid. 
Either way, they'll have to some how get that poor kid put back together. 
But answer this: if there were other people around in THAT environment, his did no one hear this kid screaming for help? 
Massive fail by the facility or the responsible adult(s).

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="556813" data-time="1454753454">
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And ask the kid's parents where the fuck they were.
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So you were just talking about a drowning risk with this comment?
Completely irrelevant, as there were lifeguards there.
 
I think you were trying to partly blame the parents. And now you are just back tracking.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="556920" data-time="1454806551">
Pretty simple question. Have you EVER let your kids swim without you or your wife being there? If the answer is yes.. then you are no different to the parents of that kid, if the answer is no.. then you are a monumental helicopter parent with severe trust issues.</blockquote>
 
See my response above. 
But yes, I have left my kids in the care of others, and in many cases I'm still required by the facility to supervise in some capacity. 
If they failed in that duty, I'd be livid. Even if it was my wife.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="556928" data-time="1454807395">
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But answer this: if there were other people around in THAT environment, his did no one hear this kid screaming for help? 
Massive fail by the facility or the responsible adult(s).
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Why???
They are there to stop kids drowning. That is what you said you were concerned about....
 
They are not there to stop sexual predators, that is why 10 year olds walk home from school all over the country. If a kid gets kidnapped and raped walking home from school is that also a massive fail by the parents or teachers? No.. bad people can do bad shit to victims.
 
Do you not let your kids go anywhere unless they are supervised by an adult?

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="556932" data-time="1454807882">Why??? 
They are there to stop kids drowning. That is what you said you were concerned about.... 
They are not there to stop sexual predators, that is why 10 year olds walk home from school all over the country. If a kid gets kidnapped and raped walking home from school is that also a massive fail by the parents or teachers? No.. bad people can do bad shit to victims. 
Do you not let your kids go anywhere unless they are supervised by an adult?</blockquote>
Closed facility versus open public area. Yeah that's a content, parallel argument.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="556939" data-time="1454808841">
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Closed facility versus open public area. Yeah that's a content, parallel argument.
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You did not answer my question, do you ever let your kids go anywhere without you?

NTA

Of course. But not a swimming pool unless it's a school swimming carnival, and at all times they have teaching supervision. I expect those teachers to be responsible for their well being, as if it were the school yard. 
If I take them to the local pool, I'm required as part of the conditions of entry to keep my 8yo within reach, and be responsible for my 11 yo. 
Does that make me a helicopter parent in your eyes?

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="556915" data-time="1454805734">
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Nick, you have no idea what the situation was or where the parents may or may not have been. Pretty farked up to blame them for anything without knowing any of the details.
 
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I missed this while scrolling on the phone - you're absolutely right. Me saying "parents" in the context of not knowing where they were, is shoddy. So you and Baron are on the money there.
 
Here was my original assumption: it was a public pool where the parents had taken the kid for a swim. 
 
Reading the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/02/05/ten-year-old-boy-brutally-raped-by-iraqi-migrant-at-pool-in-vienna/'>original article from breitbart</a> : the boy was dragged into a change cubicle and assaulted. Afterward he reported the incident to a lifeguard, and then police were called. So its one of two things:
 
1) the place was so crowded that no-one could hear the kid screaming in the change rooms.
 
2) the place was so empty that no-one could hear the kid screaming in the change rooms.
 
It doesn't mention any parents in the article. I can only assume they, or a responsible adult, were in the facility somewhere. Because in Australia, if I leave a 10yo unsupervised directly by a responsible adult, I get a call from family services, even if its within my own house - and that doesn't count lifeguards or facility staff unless I've specifically entered the child in a program. So the parent's duty of care still stands from my point of view.
 
Further, its not an unreasonable expectation to ensure that responsible adult is mindful a drowning hazard, and to know roughly where the kid is at any given time, and when they'll be back. When we're at the pool, my kids are trained to tell me if they're going to the toilet, and I'll expect them back within a couple of minutes. Otherwise, if I look up and don't see them in that pool, I have to wonder where the fuck they are, and why they've gone without my permission, or if they're going to bob to the surface after copping a stray boot to the head or neck while underwater.
 
I'm not a cotton-wool merchant in this regard - I take my kids swimming in the river, and out bushwalking or camping whenever I can, and try to get them to take risks to push their boundaries. But when we're kayaking, I make them wear life jackets, because its a fucking life lesson.
 
In any case, I'd rather have a little bit of mild paranoia mixed in with my dictatorship, even in the suburbs of good old Sydney, than have to live through what these people are going to live through.
 
 
Because of this incident, they'll turn into the helicopter parents that Baron seems to despise so much.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="556953" data-time="1454810410">
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Of course. But not a swimming pool unless it's a school swimming carnival, and at all times they have teaching supervision. I expect those teachers to be responsible for their well being, as if it were the school yard. 
If I take them to the local pool, I'm required as part of the conditions of entry to keep my 8yo within reach, and be responsible for my 11 yo. 
Does that make me a helicopter parent in your eyes?
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</blockquote>
 
Oh ok... so if your kid was raped at a 'swimming carnival'... you would blame yourself. .... seems strange. 
How do you know this kid was not at a 'swimming carnival'? You know fuck all of the facts which makes your initial comment about the parents just that much more rancid.
 
And would you stop going on about drowning.. for fucks sake... for all you know they might have 5 lifeguards for every kid, it might have been a very shallow pool with lots of lifeguards. You have idea about how well protected the kid was from drowning. You are just using that as some pathetic crutch to hide from your initial ugly comment.
 
Perhaps the parents did exactly the sort of thing you have done in the past with your own kids. Your first comment about them was just nasty.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="556978" data-time="1454821315">
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Oh ok... so if your kid was raped at a 'swimming carnival'... you would blame yourself. .... seems strange. 
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 :lol: You're a such a wilfully abrasive fluffybunny, and love to make shit up to suit your prejudices. No, I would hold the school and teachers responsible, and i would hold the pool staff responsible. 
 
But if I left my kid at a fucking public pool without ANY supervision from an adult I trusted, or had appointed through a prior agreement, I'd hold myself greatly responsible for not taking steps to protect my child. So would the law.
 
Back to this incident: based on what I've read, including the fact the lifeguard was the first person the kid told, I can only assume the parents weren't exactly on-hand or they would be the first person the kid would run to. I assume that it wasn't a swimming carnival, because that wasn't mentioned either, as well as the fact that the perpetrator was still in the pool area where you'd expect the school or organisation responsible to have the place to themselves, and not allow members of the general public due to safety concerns. And if it WAS a swimming carnival, that definitely would have been mentioned.
 
Though it was breitbart, so maybe they just excluded a lot of detail about the circumstances so they could concentrate on "immigrant" and "Iraq". Fuck, imagine if they clearly identified him as a Muslim! 
 
So, am I a helicopter parent? Because I don't want to burden others with a responsibility unless the lines are perfectly clear.
 
Don't you supervise your kids at the pool? You rely completely on the lifeguards to keep an eye on every moving body in that place, if we're assuming there was a crowd of people. What about the beach? You just sit back and expect the lifeguards to know everything that is happening?
 
I check on my kids every couple of minutes in the pool at home, particularly if there is no screaming or arguing, because silence means something is wrong, particularly if they're in there by themselves. One slip, crack your head on the side, face down and gone. Driest continent on earth, but had it drummed into me from very early on the dangers of water. So yes I will continue on about "drowning" because its a real thing, and you don't get a second chance at that.

taniwharugby

isnt Antarctica the driest continent...

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="556996" data-time="1454823202">
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isnt Antarctica the driest continent...
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Snow counts as precipitation, doesn't it? I hear they get a fair bit of that.

taniwharugby

Antarctica is a desert...great thread dviversion huh

NTA

Its a good one. And now I'm going to google "driest continent on earth" - though maybe we only brag about it instead of actually having that in our quiver.
 
I'll just admit I'm wrong for mentioning the word "parent" without all the facts. That'll make everyone happy. Except for that poor fucking kid and his family.

The Silver Fern

Hang on a sec