P and all that jazz
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="555745" data-time="1454362863">
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<p>Exactly, and statistics back up this point of view.</p>
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<p>So many stories on this thread start like "I know this guy who used to smoke...."</p>
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<p>For every one of these stories I reckon there are many more to be told of those who don't end up a complete fuckup as a result. </p>
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<p>I've yet to meet one.</p>
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<p>As I said, I have no bother in trying to convince anyone about this. It is pointless.</p> -
<p>Well even if you haven't met one the statistics back up my point.</p>
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<p>14% of the population are smokers... 14% of the poulation do not end up with severe depression or psychiatric issue.</p>
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<p>I would guess that figure is much less than 1%.</p> -
<p>And how many of those folks were solely using weed rather than weed plus x, Y, Z. </p>
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<p>I don't think it's as cut and dried (oh a pun of sorts!) as use it for over X years and end up with X symptoms/issues. But at the same time people have, and will continue too, end up in bad places due to use of weed. </p>
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<p>I'm with Sammy in that the numbers with weed-related mental health issues are pretty low in proportion to overall users. Not that it isn't shit for anyone dealing with that sort of stuff or the impact it has on their whanau and friends. </p>
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<p>Good on you Hooroo, that can't have been an easy thing to do. Respect.</p> -
<p>Whilst the overall numbers may not be that startling it would be interesting to know if there was a divergence, percentage wise, between non stoners and (prolonged) stoners in regard to mental health issues. Then there is the extra risk - as what you are taking is illegal it is not regulated and you are at the mercy of the integrity of someone who is already operating outside the law. Your chances of dealing with a scrote go up exponentially with the accordant dangers. Lastly - this certainly goes for the UK, i can't say in regard to NZ or Aussie - the strength and toxicity of the weed now freely available is so much more than in my salad days. Most of that skunk shit is, well shit really. The frequency of psychotic episodes is greatly increasing according to anecdotal evidence from a few local hospitals.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="555750" data-time="1454363463"><p>Well even if you haven't met one the statistics back up my point.<br>
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14% of the population are smokers... 14% of the poulation do not end up with severe depression or psychiatric issue.<br>
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I would guess that figure is much less than 1%.</p></blockquote>
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Stats are funny things. Last time I checked the non-vaccination rate was also between 10 and 15%. <br><br>
Which certainly doesn't mean they all get polio, but I couldn't recommend non-vaccination either. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="555777" data-time="1454367642"><p>
Stats are funny things. Last time I checked the non-vaccination rate was also between 10 and 15%. <br><br>
Which certainly doesn't mean they all get polio, but I couldn't recommend non-vaccination either.</p></blockquote>
True, but herd immunity is an extra positive of vaccination that doesn't apply to weed use. <br><br>
The strongest drug I take is caffeine, but I think weed should be legalised - the negatives to society of the illegality outweigh the negatives of the drug itself. -
<p>Somewhat topical:</p>
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<p>A warning has been issued over a potentially deadly batch of synthetic cannabis after a teenage boy died in the NSW Hunter region and two others were hospitalised.</p>
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<div>Dean Shield, 17, was discovered in a reserve at Rutherford on Saturday night and police have been told he took 'Kronic' in the hours before his body was found.</div>
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<div>Superintendent Craig Jackson told reporters on Monday that police were worried there was more of the same batch available, and warned users of the substance they were taking their lives into their own hands.</div>
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<div>In January last year two Queensland men died after after smoking the batch of synthetic cannabis.</div>
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<div>Australia's prohibition approach to cannabis is leading to deaths and harm to people turning to the much more dangerous synthetic version, warns an expert.</div>
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<div>'Most doctors that I know hanker after the days in which we might have to treat somebody who is just smoking weed,' Dr David Caldicott told AAP.</div>
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<div>The emergency consultant and senior clinical lecturer at the ANU's college of medicine was speaking after the death of the 17-year-old boy and hospitalisation of two men in NSW.</div>
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<div>Police were told the trio had consumed a synthetic form of cannabis known as 'Kronic'.</div>
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<div>'I think this is a tragic example of deja vue,' Dr Caldicott said.</div>
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<div>'We need to ask ourselves what is wrong with our current approach that allows these tragedies to continue to occur.</div>
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<div>'I don't know a practising emergency physician who would not have treated (such a case) in the last year.'</div>
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<div>While synthetic cannabis is marketed as a herbal or natural alternative to cannabis, 'it's anything but', being prepared in industrial labs, frequently in southwest China.</div>
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<div>'There are absolutely hundreds of these products on the market and every time one is banned another five or 10 emerge' using different chemicals.</div>
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<div>This presents a challenge to the medical profession in knowing what they are dealing with.</div>
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<div>'This is a problem of our own creation,' he said.</div>
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<div>'The prohibition approach towards cannabis, which can be identified by sniffer dogs and identified in your urine, has resulted in the emergence of a market of far more dangerous compounds.'</div>
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<div>They can't be identified by dogs or in your urine, can be bought over the internet and delivered through the post as they are not detected by normal techniques, he said.</div>
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<div>'Kronic' was a brand marketed several years ago, but Dr Caldicott said he doubted whether the recent cases involved the same product.</div>
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<div>'As part of our monitoring program we have clearly seen the same brands with very different chemicals inside, so the packaging and the street name is largely irrelevant as to what you are receiving.'</div>
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<div>- See more at: <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/2016/02/01/another-death-linked-to-synthetic-cannabis.html#sthash.R9Z4cQYq.dpuf'>http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/2016/02/01/another-death-linked-to-synthetic-cannabis.html#sthash.R9Z4cQYq.dpuf</a></div>
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<p>Interesting reading about everyone's views on puffing the old magic dragon. It's something I haven't done since the late 90s, I just didn't particularly like it and how it made me feel, I was always much more of a drinker and I've never tried anything else save for an extremely brief period of smoking to look cool to chicks which amazingly enough worked for a bit......</p>
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<p>It is absolutely ridiculous that it is illegal though, booze causes sooooooooo much more fucken damage to lives, property etc that it isn't funny. Weed isn't me and that's fine and I certainly don't judge those who choose to partake, I guess I'm just lucky that my vice of choice is legal.</p>
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<p>P? I had an extremely interesting yarn to one of our finest Senior Constables and he says the effects of that horrible drug are equal parts terrifying and heart breaking. The shit he told me over a few beers would make Breaking Bad look like Full House.....</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Godder" data-cid="555814" data-time="1454376754"><p>True, but herd immunity is an extra positive of vaccination that doesn't apply to weed use. <br>
The strongest drug I take is caffeine, but I think weed should be legalised - the negatives to society of the illegality outweigh the negatives of the drug itself.</p></blockquote>
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Point being just because something is "normalised" at 14% tells you absolutely nothing about whether it's good or bad. Just that people do something. There are a number of good arguments for changes to the current legislation on drugs, but something "being normalised" is rarely one of them. <br><br>
And the advantage of herd immunity with vaccines is to protect people at high risk/low immunity/unable to be vaccinated for genuine health reasons. Not to give contemptible fucksticks a false sense of security. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="555743" data-time="1454362219"><p>
Fair enough. Agree individual results do vary. I don't think the argument is "but I did it and I'm fine", it's more "the majority of people that have done it are fine".</p></blockquote>
The majority of people can have a Mars bar and not turn diabetic instantly either, though curiously the actively pro marijuana people on my Facebook news feed want to ban me from having a Coca Cola at the same time... <br><br>
Good reasons for decriminalisation to me seem to be: <br>- Responsible informed adults can make their own life choices<br>
- Some power will be taken away from criminal gangs<br>
- Some form of tax revenue is generated for the health consequences for those whom it does affect negatively <br>
- It will be available as a form of pain relief for those it suits<br><br>
And a fringe benefit being that the 'it's a hidden cure for cancer/every disease under the sun' brigade will have to face reality for a brief moment when it does nothing of the sort. <br><br>
'Alcohol/cigarettes/sugar/fat are just as bad' falls into the "we're crap but you're worse" category of sporting chant... Satisfying at the time, but otherwise shithouse... <br><br>
(And no, I wouldn't ban any of those four - before someone starts)
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rembrandt" data-cid="555687" data-time="1454323144"><p>
CH were you the one in law enforcement? If so do you think current strategies are working? Like some others here H,Meth and Crack scare me far more than anything else out there, could there be an arguement to reduce enforcement of comparitively more minor drugs such as weed and instead focus this on the real nasties? <br><br></p></blockquote>
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I am not privy to any statistics so I am only going by what I see on the streets and in people's homes, but I think we are losing the battle with p. Things just seem worse in the last few years. <br><br>
As for marijuana we don't get much trouble from people when they are under the influence but things can be different when regular users are not on it - they can get very angry over the smallest things. -
<p>When a house has been a P lab it is basically a write off. Even if the owners do a really, really super thorough clean, market value plummets. That shit gets in everywhere, walls, ceiling. And people on P/trying to get a fix can do horrific things.</p>
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<p>I've never touched drugs, tried the odd cigarette in high school, hated the taste.</p>
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<p>Wouldn't care either way if weed was decriminalised, I think doctors have more to worry about with those fucking 'legal high' packets of Russian roulette.</p> -
<p>The weed = depression thing is hard because people will tend towards weed if they find life a bit much. Its a GREAT drug if you are a bit overwhelmed & stressed & need to take the edge off. IE if you are already depressed & have mental health issues then weed is the drug you may well turn to. Then you become dependendent on weed & then you end up in mental health care. </p>
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<p>The hard bit is sorting the people who became psychotic because of heavy weed use from the people who were psychotic & for years self medicated with weed.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="555850" data-time="1454386438">
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<p>The majority of people can have a Mars bar and not turn diabetic instantly either, though curiously the actively pro marijuana people on my Facebook news feed want to ban me from having a Coca Cola at the same time...<br><br>
Good reasons for decriminalisation to me seem to be:<br>- Responsible informed adults can make their own life choices<br>
- Some power will be taken away from criminal gangs<br>
- Some form of tax revenue is generated for the health consequences for those whom it does affect negatively<br>
- It will be available as a form of pain relief for those it suits<br><br>
And a fringe benefit being that the 'it's a hidden cure for cancer/every disease under the sun' brigade will have to face reality for a brief moment when it does nothing of the sort.<br><br>
'Alcohol/cigarettes/sugar/fat are just as bad' falls into the "we're crap but you're worse" category of sporting chant... Satisfying at the time, but otherwise shithouse...<br><br>
(And no, I wouldn't ban any of those four - before someone starts)</p>
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<p>You are right if you have one mars bar you are not going to turn diabetic. But if you have 10 mars bars per day you will. If you have a couple of cones in the weekend you are not going to do any harm to yourself or your life in general. If you are stoned 24/7 you are going to impact all parts of your life and will likely fall into depression as there is nothing in your life that you will feel 'proud' of. Everything in moderation... :)</p>
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<p>People bring up alcohol because there is a big double standard there. We have a drug that does massive amounts of damage to the community that is completely legal and available at every 2nd shop you go to, including supermarkets. Then we have a drug that by comparison does far less damage but is completely illegal and can land you a criminal conviction if you are caught with it, even if you are using it for medicinal reasons. Then to make matters worse you have a host of synthetic cannabis and other "legal highs" that are akin to P and are also completely legal and freely available.</p>
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<p>There is no doubt NZ's drug laws are badly outdated and need a big overhaul.</p>
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<p>but if Weed were made legal, would more people do it, and as such, see more issues in communities as a result?</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="555932" data-time="1454444766">
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<p>but if Weed were made legal, would more people do it, and as such, see more issues in communities as a result?</p>
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<p>I'll let you know next week. I'm about to go on holiday where weed is legal. Haven't had any since early 20s but could be tempted in the right environment/situation.</p> -
<p>I just mean similar to those associated with Alcohol which is widely available, yet people still break in to places to steal it, people still abuse it, alcoholism etc...</p>
