P and all that jazz

Paekakboyz

For all that I, and most of my mates, have had no dramas with weed I'd never say it's totally benign. As a few posters have noted for some people drugs just mess them up utterly. That can be booze, weed, prescription drugs or the harder stuff. Some people make one shitty decision and that's all she wrote - but that's a lot rarer for stuff like weed and even ecstasy. I'd struggle to include booze in that group as I've seen that wreck folks - but obviously booze is legal and more accessible etc so that will skew things.

No Quarter

Yeah, look, I wouldn't say I'm a "weed supporter", I just found that from a mind altering POV it was a lot milder then anything else on the market. I don't doubt it has messed with people's lives, but compared to what is out there it's at the lower end of the scale. 
I haven't smoked it in years. That wasn't a concious decision. More that I became too busy with work and family to have time lazing around getting stoned. There was no "going cold turkey" period like there is with a lot of other drugs, but I accept that some people do become very dependant on it to the detriment of other parts of their lives.

antipodean

Three things antipodean wouldn't and hasn't touched thus far; meth, crack cocaine and heroin. Seen the by-products of introducing that misery into your life and I feel that's the best drug education for young people; <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://fav-meth-head-of-the-day.com/faces-of-meth/'>http://fav-meth-head-of-the-day.com/faces-of-meth/</a>

Hooroo

Someone remind me to post in this thread tomorrow. 
Briefly, anyone that thinks weed is ok needs to spend time in a mental institute to see the real effects. P is an amazing drug. Amazing that something can be completely destructive to a human and be willingly consumed. Awful awful drug. Makes cocaine seem like nuerofen

gollum

NZ is pretty much the top country for Meth apparently. Down to the fact that importing crack & heroin is REALLY hard & expensive so meth is ideal is its effectivly lo rent & you can make it in the country. So it effectivly replaces crack & heroin in the country's drug options.
 
Like most on here I've tried a few drugs & I know a lot of people that have worked their way through several. The only drugs I've seen I would regard as 100% certain to fuck your life up are Heroin, Crack & Meth.
 
Tho' a few heavy weed users I knew back in NZ are effectivly unable to function without it & pretty much impaired 24/7. Weed is a tricky one it that people tell themselves "it just takes the edge off" but what its taking the edge off is life. So you get folks who are mildly stoned all the time, at work, with their kids etc and telling themselves they are fine. Its like people who are incapable of going out without coke. Tho at least there it only affects their socialising.

Rembrandt

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crazy Horse" data-cid="555657" data-time="1454303651">
I have seen some real fucked up stuff as a result of p or ice. There is something nasty about that drug that drains the essence of who that person once was. I have seen vibrant men and women wither away to shadows of their former selves. I have seen families torn apart, mums and dads at a loss as to how to help their child. You might be one of the lucky ones that can handle that shit, or at least think you are. If p or any of the variants get hold of you, it is a very very long way back. And it can be a very quick decent into a very deep and dark hole.</blockquote>
 
CH were you the one in law enforcement? If so do you think current strategies are working? Like some others here H,Meth and Crack scare me far more than anything else out there, could there be an arguement to reduce enforcement of comparitively more minor drugs such as weed and instead focus this on the real nasties? 
I'm curious as to what the mid to long term effect of the legalisation in colarado is, maybe its a bit of a simplistic view but I'd like to see something like that but with a guaranteed percentage of the tax revenue going directly to actual drug education (not just transparent scare tactics) as well as massively bringing the smackdown on meth dealers and for users if they don't give up their dealers. People are always gping to find stuff to get messed up on it just might be better for society to funnel them to certain substances over others.

dingo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="555681" data-time="1454321638">
NZ is pretty much the top country for Meth apparently. Down to the fact that importing crack & heroin is REALLY hard & expensive so meth is ideal is its effectivly lo rent & you can make it in the country. So it effectivly replaces crack & heroin in the country's drug options. </blockquote>
 
P is a favorite because you can buy P Precursor legally in China and its cheap. Buy large quantities, divide into small packets, and then pack them into containers and airfreight parcels. Shotgun approach, fire enough at NZ, our Customs find plenty but plenty more gets through.

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rembrandt" data-cid="555687" data-time="1454323144">
<div>
CH were you the one in law enforcement? If so do you think current strategies are working? Like some others here H,Meth and Crack scare me far more than anything else out there, could there be an arguement to reduce enforcement of comparitively more minor drugs such as weed and instead focus this on the real nasties? 
I'm curious as to what the mid to long term effect of the legalisation in colarado is, maybe its a bit of a simplistic view but I'd like to see something like that but with a guaranteed percentage of the tax revenue going directly to actual drug education (not just transparent scare tactics) as well as massively bringing the smackdown on meth dealers and for users if they don't give up their dealers. People are always gping to find stuff to get messed up on it just might be better for society to funnel them to certain substances over others.
</div>
</blockquote>
I think you will find that enforcement on weed in places like Colorado has become even higher. It is just the rules that have changed.
It's a good concept though (for some substances like alcohol, tobacco, weed) where the social cost is outweighed by the social gains.
It's not like everyone wanders around stoned or partakes in public. The rules are strictly enforced and are similar to alcohol (eg public signs of intoxication, consuming in public, licenced sales etc)
As you say, people will always look for substances and finding where to draw the line is the issue for society.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="555677" data-time="1454320182">
<div>
Briefly, anyone that thinks weed is ok needs to spend time in a mental institute to see the real effects. P is an amazing drug. Amazing that something can be completely destructive to a human and be willingly consumed. Awful awful drug. Makes cocaine seem like nuerofen
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Bit of a generalisation here, Apparently 14% of the NZ poulation are catagorised as weed smokers. It's only a very small percentage that end up in mental institutions.
 
I'm guessing you are a bit older than me, but it's pretty normalised in society now. As mentioned above I know of plenty who use and also hold down demanding careers, young families without becoming the zombies some have suggested above.

Hooroo

I'll add a couple of things.
 
It's nothing to do with 'zombiness' it is about depression from prolonged use.
 
Not one of the people in the clinic were young, they were all 40+ who had smoked weed for years. It's accumulative.
 
I'm not trying to convince anyone about anything. I am just pointing out what I saw and what I got to hear from the therapists and psycologists. I got to spend a good couple of months there as a visitor as I was helping someone through a difficult patch. They allowed me to stay on premise in visitor quarters. Seeing these people each day was heartbreaking.
 
I would struggle to go through that again for someone.

No Quarter

Are you saying that prolonged use causes depression? Or that it may cause depression? Or that people that are prone to depression turn to weed? Were they casual smokers or were they 24/7 stoners? Did these people drink or do any other drugs as well, or were they only smoking weed?
 
There are far too many variables to just make a sweeping statement like "you need to spend time in a mental institute to see the real effects of weed".
 
In my opinion.
 
:)

Hooroo

True. Probably best to just ignore it.
 
Toot toot

Donsteppa

I go with Hooroo's view. A few years ago I worked regularly with a guy who works helping people who'd had mental health issues transition back to regular (or supported) employment. He mentioned he'd had a very liberal view about pot when he was younger, but he'd found the amount of drug induced psychosis that he'd seen in his line of work a frightening eye opener. 
"But I did it and I'm fine". Lucky you. Plenty of farmers who drink raw milk say the same thing, and good luck to them, plenty of people who avoid their flu jab stay healthy too. But individual results do vary....

No Quarter

Fair enough. Agree individual results do vary. I don't think the argument is "but I did it and I'm fine", it's more "the majority of people that have done it are fine".

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="555743" data-time="1454362219">
<div>
Fair enough. Agree individual results do vary. I don't think the argument is "but I did it and I'm fine", it's more "the majority of people that have done it are fine".
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Exactly, and statistics back up this point of view.
 
So many stories on this thread start like "I know this guy who used to smoke...."
 
For every one of these stories I reckon there are many more to be told of those who don't end up a complete fuckup as a result.

Hooroo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="555745" data-time="1454362863">
<div>
Exactly, and statistics back up this point of view.
 
So many stories on this thread start like "I know this guy who used to smoke...."
 
For every one of these stories I reckon there are many more to be told of those who don't end up a complete fuckup as a result. 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I've yet to meet one.
 
As I said, I have no bother in trying to convince anyone about this. It is pointless.

SammyC

Well even if you haven't met one the statistics back up my point.
 
14% of the population are smokers... 14% of the poulation do not end up with severe depression or psychiatric issue.
 
I would guess that figure is much less than 1%.

Paekakboyz

And how many of those folks were solely using weed rather than weed plus x, Y, Z. 
 
I don't think it's as cut and dried (oh a pun of sorts!) as use it for over X years and end up with X symptoms/issues. But at the same time people have, and will continue too, end up in bad places due to use of weed. 
 
I'm with Sammy in that the numbers with weed-related mental health issues are pretty low in proportion to overall users. Not that it isn't shit for anyone dealing with that sort of stuff or the impact it has on their whanau and friends. 
 
Good on you Hooroo, that can't have been an easy thing to do. Respect.

Catogrande

Whilst the overall numbers may not be that startling it would be interesting to know if there was a divergence, percentage wise, between non stoners and (prolonged) stoners in regard to mental health issues. Then there is the extra risk - as what you are taking is illegal it is not regulated and you are at the mercy of the integrity of someone who is already operating outside the law. Your chances of dealing with a scrote go up exponentially with the accordant dangers. Lastly - this certainly goes for the UK, i can't say in regard to NZ or Aussie - the strength and toxicity of the weed now freely available is so much more than in my salad days. Most of that skunk shit is, well shit really. The frequency of psychotic episodes is greatly increasing according to anecdotal evidence from a few local hospitals.

Donsteppa

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="555750" data-time="1454363463">Well even if you haven't met one the statistics back up my point. 
 
14% of the population are smokers... 14% of the poulation do not end up with severe depression or psychiatric issue. 
 
I would guess that figure is much less than 1%.</blockquote>
 
Stats are funny things. Last time I checked the non-vaccination rate was also between 10 and 15%. 
Which certainly doesn't mean they all get polio, but I couldn't recommend non-vaccination either.

The Silver Fern

P and all that jazz