NH club rugby
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@gt12 said in NH club rugby:
So, based on our discussion so far, they'll probably not get any real punishment.
I'll bet they still make the playoffs this year.
Given that they will take this on appeal / review, I'd say you are correct gt12
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Whatever the outcome this is a bad situation for English rugby and possibly the club game in the NH as a whole. It’s like drugs in cycling, you just wonder “who else”?
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Unless you're a Times subscriber, the Walrus is an irrelevance.
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@gt12 said in NH club rugby:
So, based on our discussion so far, they'll probably not get any real punishment.
I'll bet they still make the playoffs this year.
They've receive the punishment, as recommended by an independant panel. It will be a very hard sell to stop it, mitigate maybe. Esp hard sell when the other clubs want them taken down a peg or two
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@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:
Whatever the outcome this is a bad situation for English rugby and possibly the club game in the NH as a whole. It’s like drugs in cycling, you just wonder “who else”?
I'd go with the ones making big name signings.
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You look at the squad sheet for Saracen's, the number of big names. Sure they will get player's stay due to the environment and loyalty, like the ABs, and if you want to play for England you might as well be at a winning team in the Premiership. But some of those player's must be on a relative pittance to their value, they could get at other clubs, let alone overseas.
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@Machpants said in NH club rugby:
You look at the squad sheet for Saracen's, the number of big names. Sure they will get player's stay due to the environment and loyalty, like the ABs, and if you want to play for England you might as well be at a winning team in the Premiership. But some of those player's must be on a relative pittance to their value, they could get at other clubs, let alone overseas.
They should be on a relative pittance your right.
But they aren’t. And that’s the issue.
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Saracens have been fined and had points deducted for breaching the salary cap in the last three seasons (2016-2017, 2017-2018 and 2018-2019),
The sanction that has been imposed on Saracens Rugby Club by the panel is:- a total fine of £5,360,272.31
- and a total deduction of 35 league points.
Full statements from both sides:
Premiership Rugby | Premiership Rugby Statement Decision On Salary Cap Charges News
All the Premiership Rugby Statement Decision On Salary Cap Charges News
My understanding is that they didn't directly breach the salary cap, but had an investment structure that financially benefited the players (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47523241) and that this has been ruled as part of their salary.
Anyone know more?
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Petulant or embarrassed?
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@Daffy-Jaffy said in NH club rugby:
Petulant or embarrassed?
Depends on how you'd think they'd react to coming second...
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@Daffy-Jaffy sensible decision to keep the players away from the media. They aren't in a position to say anything really. Also it would have and is a bit overshowdow the day
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I don't follow NH club rugby that closely. But Saracens are clearly not liked by other clubs!
Loads of clubs welcoming the punishment. Some more than others.I have now seen 2 articles quoting Harlequins players putting the boot in to Saracens. Chris Robshaw and Danny Care.
Guess there is no love lost there. The word "cheating" seems to be part of the script - all of which has a tinge of irony coming from the "Bloodgate" club - where both Robshaw and Care played at the time of that particular cheating scandal. -
@Billy-Webb said in NH club rugby:
I don't follow NH club rugby that closely. But Saracens are clearly not liked by other clubs!
Loads of clubs welcoming the punishment. Some more than others.I have now seen 2 articles quoting Harlequins players putting the boot in to Saracens. Chris Robshaw and Danny Care.
Guess there is no love lost there. The word "cheating" seems to be part of the script - all of which has a tinge of irony coming from the "Bloodgate" club - where both Robshaw and Care played at the time of that particular cheating scandal.That's quite a considerable difference in scale though.
This cheating means that Saracens have been able to maintain a much stronger squad, pushing up the costs of players at other clubs (as all players are benchmarked), win more trophies which in turn means higher gate revenues, and more and more advantages to the club which others didn't get.
I don't believe in punishing the fans or the players for the actions of the top brass, so I'm not quite of the same drag them through the coals as others. But the top brass should be fired with immediate effect and never allowed to return to rugby administration.
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@MajorRage said in NH club rugby:
@Billy-Webb said in NH club rugby:
I don't follow NH club rugby that closely. But Saracens are clearly not liked by other clubs!
Loads of clubs welcoming the punishment. Some more than others.I have now seen 2 articles quoting Harlequins players putting the boot in to Saracens. Chris Robshaw and Danny Care.
Guess there is no love lost there. The word "cheating" seems to be part of the script - all of which has a tinge of irony coming from the "Bloodgate" club - where both Robshaw and Care played at the time of that particular cheating scandal.That's quite a considerable difference in scale though.
This cheating means that Saracens have been able to maintain a much stronger squad, pushing up the costs of players at other clubs (as all players are benchmarked), win more trophies which in turn means higher gate revenues, and more and more advantages to the club which others didn't get.
I don't believe in punishing the fans or the players for the actions of the top brass, so I'm not quite of the same drag them through the coals as others. But the top brass should be fired with immediate effect and never allowed to return to rugby administration.
My initial inclination is to concur @MajorRage
Although, what Bloodgate had laid bare, was that Harlequins back in 2009 had a well documented plan and practice in place to cheat, by faking blood injuries. It wasn't just that one instance. And they were doing it to, and I use your words here: "win more trophies which in turn means higher gate revenues, and more and more advantages to the club".It may well not have delivered as good a set of results as Saracens flouting of the salary cap, but should we cut them more slack simply because their cheating was less effective?
Can't remember Harlequins being docked any points? Maybe they did. Dean Richards got a 3 year ban, and the player involved got a 1 year ban which was then reduced to 4 months.
So Sarries will have to suck up what's coming their way, although I think your proposed punishment is a touch harsh.
And I bring up Bloodgate only because it feels like a case of pot and kettle here. If I were Robshaw, Care and in fact anyone with anything to do at Harlequins, I'd keep references to cheating very far from my lexicon.
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@Billy-Webb said in NH club rugby:
the player involved got a 1 year ban which was then reduced to 4 months.
Tom Williams. I worked with his Dad. Top bloke and knew his rugby, but it was always a bit awkward talking with him after that.
Also worked with David Millar's (the Scottish doper cyclist) dad, but he was a complete jerk so I mentioned it all of the time.
In both cases the cheating really affected the fathers, very public and very humiliating.
Club Statement: Salary Cap
