England & Eddie
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Eddie Jones? My two cents.
Been telling people for a while I've had a suspicion he inherited a promising team Lancaster had put together and built on it, but would crash at the final hurdle as he has done in the past. He was uber-successful for a couple of years but the wheels started coming off about 18 months ago and I always thought England would struggle in tournaments like the RWC as they have in the last 2 6N's.
They were good against a woeful Oz and beat us well in the SF, but they were really, really poor today. That performance was, at times, embarrassing for an English supporter. Probably the poorest I've seen from a side in a RWC Final - during the game and after the whistle.
Seems to me a lot of the players have a serious attitude problem - if the players are a reflection of the coach, then he needs to take some of the blame
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@Bones said in England & Eddie:
@hydro11 Sinckler would have got destroyed in the scrums.
But given them a heap more around the field. Cole is a serial offender - who got away with his offside at every ruck and maul last night - and not a ball runner like Sinckler.
The kid might be a tool, but can play.
@Bones said in England & Eddie:
So why would you need to rip off your medal on camera if it doesn't matter? Unless you're trying to prove some point. Seems like being a sore loser to me to have to show petulance.
Who says they even knew - or gave 2 knobs of goat shit - whether a camera was on them.
As I said on the match thread: they're young men, they're high achievers who wanted to win, and they're hurting.
And you're well within your rights to think they're arrogant douchecopters, but just remember: look too long into the abyss, and you'll find it starts looking back into you
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I've no idea what the terms of Eddie's contract are - how long he has left - but when he does leave it could be the perfect time to give Lancaster a ring.
As time goes on I read and hear more and more of what a solid foundation Lancaster laid down.
And if not him, someone like him.
England needs a hardnosed English coach.
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@NTA said in England & Eddie:
As I said on the match thread: they're young men, they're high achievers who wanted to win, and they're hurting.
They're professionals who are representing England Rugby FFS. Their behaviour left a sour taste and gave the impression of bad losers.
That they didn't realize this or didn't give s stuff says a lot for the team's attitude and that of the management team - a fish rots from the head down as the Chinese say.
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@MiketheSnow said in England & Eddie:
I've no idea what the terms of Eddie's contract are - how long he has left - but when he does leave it could be the perfect time to give Lancaster a ring.
As time goes on I read and hear more and more of what a solid foundation Lancaster laid down.
And if not him, someone like him.
England needs a hardnosed English coach.
The wireless suggested he has an out clause despite being contracted until 2021. Some are suggesting a return to Oz. This could fit, after all he did say he wanted to return to coaching a lower tier team after England
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@canefan said in England & Eddie:
@MiketheSnow said in England & Eddie:
I've no idea what the terms of Eddie's contract are - how long he has left - but when he does leave it could be the perfect time to give Lancaster a ring.
As time goes on I read and hear more and more of what a solid foundation Lancaster laid down.
And if not him, someone like him.
England needs a hardnosed English coach.
The wireless suggested he has an out clause despite being contracted until 2021. Some are suggesting a return to Oz. This could fit, after all he did say he wanted to return to coaching a lower tier team after England
The Wobblies? 😎
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@Victor-Meldrew said in England & Eddie:
@canefan said in England & Eddie:
@MiketheSnow said in England & Eddie:
I've no idea what the terms of Eddie's contract are - how long he has left - but when he does leave it could be the perfect time to give Lancaster a ring.
As time goes on I read and hear more and more of what a solid foundation Lancaster laid down.
And if not him, someone like him.
England needs a hardnosed English coach.
The wireless suggested he has an out clause despite being contracted until 2021. Some are suggesting a return to Oz. This could fit, after all he did say he wanted to return to coaching a lower tier team after England
The Wobblies? 😎
Yes, that's what I was implying
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@NTA said in England & Eddie:
@Bones said in England & Eddie:
@hydro11 Sinckler would have got destroyed in the scrums.
But given them a heap more around the field. Cole is a serial offender - who got away with his offside at every ruck and maul last night - and not a ball runner like Sinckler.
The kid might be a tool, but can play.
Right, so Cole played smart and got away with his trick of being offside. Sinckler doesn't have this trick. But Sinckler would have been better when he wasn't in the bin.
@NTA said in England & Eddie:
@Bones said in England & Eddie:
So why would you need to rip off your medal on camera if it doesn't matter? Unless you're trying to prove some point. Seems like being a sore loser to me to have to show petulance.
Who says they even knew - or gave 2 knobs of goat shit - whether a camera was on them.
As I said on the match thread: they're young men, they're high achievers who wanted to win, and they're hurting.
And you're well within your rights to think they're arrogant douchecopters, but just remember: look too long into the abyss, and you'll find it starts looking back into you
I'm unsure just why you are defending their attitude, very odd. But hey if you're happy with it then I'm sure it would be the kind of attitude you'd like to see really bed in down at club level too. I mean fuck everyone and everything else, the player should only care about himself. I'm pretty sure that's a drum you've been banging through all your years looking after clubs right?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in England & Eddie:
@NTA said in England & Eddie:
As I said on the match thread: they're young men, they're high achievers who wanted to win, and they're hurting.
They're professionals who are representing England Rugby FFS. Their behaviour left a sour taste and gave the impression of bad losers.
That they didn't realize this or didn't give s stuff says a lot for the team's attitude and that of the management team - a fish rots from the head down as the Chinese say.
All over England there were young kids watching that thinking it's OK to behave in that manner. I'm not going to be all orange slices and all that, but you can fight hard during the game and still be gracious in victory and defeat. I suspect England would not have displayed as much humility as SA if they had won
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@Bones said in England & Eddie:
I'm unsure just why you are defending their attitude, very odd. But hey if you're happy with it then I'm sure it would be the kind of attitude you'd like to see really bed in down at club level too. I mean fuck everyone and everything else, the player should only care about himself. I'm pretty sure that's a drum you've been banging through all your years looking after clubs right?
I think you've been drinking from the "Custodians Of The Game" chalice again.
No, I wouldn't take that shit at my club, but we're amateurs playing for the fun of it. Anyone showing petulance in victory or defeat is pulled aside on the occasions it happens. And it DOES happen, because humans. Can't stop outbursts or bad behaviour, but you can talk to them afterwards and go over why it isn't right.
The moralising on here gets a bit tiresome, TBH. The high horse memes I saw today about "Look at how happy we are with our bronze medals!" is mostly irrelevant IMHO - the ABs had just won, and sent out a bunch of guys on a high note. The Poms had just lost and weren't in the mood. Why is it a big deal to you?
Its the same as the comments "How DARE they smile and carry on and laugh with the opposition after that loss!" nonsense.
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@canefan said in England & Eddie:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England & Eddie:
@NTA said in England & Eddie:
As I said on the match thread: they're young men, they're high achievers who wanted to win, and they're hurting.
They're professionals who are representing England Rugby FFS. Their behaviour left a sour taste and gave the impression of bad losers.
That they didn't realize this or didn't give s stuff says a lot for the team's attitude and that of the management team - a fish rots from the head down as the Chinese say.
All over England there were young kids watching that thinking it's OK to behave in that manner.
Fuck, were there?
What percentage do you reckon? How many were probably visibly upset that their team lost, you think? Are you going to write to their parents and tell them that's not on because a bunch of middle aged Kiwi internet denizens say they should take it on the chin?
I suspect England would not have displayed as much humility as SA if they had won
And in that you're probably right.
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@NTA come on mate, I know you hail from the land of the Brad Haddins, do I give you more credit than you deserve? I don't expect England to be happy after such a crushing loss. But a little grace wouldn't hurt would it? Wear the farken medal and get the hell off the field as soon as possible
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@canefan said in England & Eddie:
@NTA come on mate, I know you hail from the land of the Brad Haddins, do I give you more credit than you deserve? I don't expect England to be happy after such a crushing loss. But a little grace wouldn't hurt would it?
Never does. Their actions definitely aren't going to please everyone and on reflection, maybe they'll come to the conclusion that they did themselves and their team poorly. I'm not going to judge them harshly, having never lost a RWC final.
Maybe Sinckler might even think he didn't deserve it due to only being out there 3 minutes
Cory Jane tweeted this, and I'm inclined to agree.
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What was Beaumont doing with Eddie? When he gave him his medal, he bowed as Eddie shuffled off. Jones turned back to look at him and Billy bowed again after which Eddie buried his hands in his pockets and walked off. Failed attempt at sign of respect towards Eddie's Japanese side, or some sort of sly dig?
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@MajorRage said in England & Eddie:
Blimey. Talk about looking for things to get upset about.
I had doubts over England's ability to win a world cup as I honestly thought they were too big - I thought going Argentina, France, QF, SF, F would be too much for them. Hence, when the France game was cancelled, I really thought it was theirs. The showing vs NZ was them at their absolute peak.
But it all crashed down in the final. But it wasn't just the forwards, I thought the backline was woeful. They couldn't seem to pass to each other and the SA rush defence just put them under all sorts of pressure and they couldn't cope.
Tuilagi barely saw the ball, and the final was much worse off because of it.
Eddie prepared them for the NZ game, not to win the world cup. I think he didn't really realise it. He was so obsessed with us, had mentioned us so many times. He barely spoke about SA. And hence, they got completely ambushed.
He's still a great coach and has achieved great things with his squad. But it was one step too far today.
I kinda have mixed views about Eddie and his coaching legacy.
No doubt he's a good coach, especially with his analysis and his ability to break down a stronger opposition and prepare a perfect game plan to get a win for a weaker team. Indeed, his greatest achievements are the surprise victories that he's masterminded against stronger opposition (2003 Wallabies, 2015 japan and, now, 2019 England).
But, I'm not sure he's the kind of coach who can put together the kind of dynastic team, with sustained success and a crowning glory. You look at all of his major achievements and the striking thing is that none of them resulted in silverware (in Japan's case they failed to make it out of their pool, despite beating the Boks).
So, for me, I'm not sure where this leaves Eddie in the pantheon of great coaches.
(As an aside, my view is that he's under-achieved somewhat with this England team. In 2018, they beat all and sundry and should have gone on to dominate world rugby for the next 4 years given the talent available. Instead, they've been a muddling and inconsistent team, lacking in composure when the heat really went on.)
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@NTA said in England & Eddie:
@canefan said in England & Eddie:
@NTA come on mate, I know you hail from the land of the Brad Haddins, do I give you more credit than you deserve? I don't expect England to be happy after such a crushing loss. But a little grace wouldn't hurt would it?
Never does. Their actions definitely aren't going to please everyone and on reflection, maybe they'll come to the conclusion that they did themselves and their team poorly. I'm not going to judge them harshly, having never lost a RWC final.
Maybe Sinckler might even think he didn't deserve it due to only being out there 3 minutes
No problems with showing disappointment after a loss, but it's a bit late for them to conclude that they did themselves and their team poorly after they gave out a strong perception of boorish-ness. Perception is reality.
If their actions give a window into the team culture, then it ain't a pretty view - not least from a marketing perspective for a professional sports team paid megabucks.
It was an unthinking and dumb thing to do.
