The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission
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@Chris-B said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@canefan An understated part of the miracle was that we played the last 30 odd minutes with Andy Ellis and Beaver as our halves.
In terms of flak copped, we could as well have had Anton throwing to the lineout and Akira Ioane at No. 8.
I forgot about that. Ellis was a great team man while not being at the level of the incumbent starters. A great little redemption story to add to the legend of the Beaver
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In all fairness, I thought Ellis was pretty good that night , no superstar, but a calm head on his shoulders
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@No-Quarter said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
The RWC hasn’t come a year too early for Josh, it’s 2 - 3 years too early. He had some nice touches against Tonga but also showed why he’s not in the squad - defensive liability and his goal kicking is not there yet. His first conversion was on target but didn’t have the legs, which is a bit unforgivable if we’re talking about test class goal kickers.
If the unthinkable did happen and we lost Beauden plus Mo’unga I think the plan is to put Jordie there to defend the channel plus kick goals, and on attack we will mix it up a lot at first receiver with BFA likely slotting in, particularly when deep in our own half.
We can’t afford a deer in the headlights that can’t tackle at 10 in the knockout stages of the cup.
The risk is that there’s still a chance we have a deer in the headlights anyway with your boy JB, and this one is used to playing fullback, not 10.
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@kiwiinmelb said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
In all fairness, I thought Ellis was pretty good that night , no superstar, but a calm head on his shoulders
I don’t think you need to add in all fairness, Angela and the Duck both did the business that night.
Ellis wasn’t up to test rugby when first selected but he improved as the years went on.
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@kiwiinmelb said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
In all fairness, I thought Ellis was pretty good that night , no superstar, but a calm head on his shoulders
Ellis overtook Cowan as the bench option? I seem to recall Jimmy being the backup for a long time, can anyone remind me what the circumstances were?
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@canefan said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@kiwiinmelb said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
In all fairness, I thought Ellis was pretty good that night , no superstar, but a calm head on his shoulders
Ellis overtook Cowan as the bench option? I seem to recall Jimmy being the backup for a long time, can anyone remind me what the circumstances were?
I think Cowan was number 1 for a while, partly because he was playing good rugby and partly because Henry liked Piri coming of the bench as he could read the game well.
But his form dropped off a cliff in RWC year, otherwise we may have seen Piri play 10 as for much of the tournament he was really a 9.5 anyway.
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I'm not sure we need J Barrett in the squad at all, but nor do we necessarily need J Ioane. All this crap about all the positions Barrett can cover is at this stage of his All Black career a complete misnomer.
Barrett sits in this squad as the third choice fullback, fifth choice winger and completely unproven as a midfielder at test level. Is he a pre-requisite? Fuck no.
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@antipodean said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
Why take him when he can be called up? Looking great against a team that have already given up before you got on the field shouldn't give you a ticket to Japan. Also Jordie cleaned up after Josh's defensive display.
If Mounga/Beauden get a one week injury for a quarter or semi, I would like to have a specialist 10 on the bench. We can't do that with the current squad.
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Big fan of Josh Ioane but I think the TWM have got this right.
One of the things the ABs have done really well in the last 10 years or so is taking a long view and developing players slowly rather than throwing them in at the deep end.
There's been exception like Reiko & the GOAT but the approach has worked for the likes of BB, Sam Cane, Ardie etc.
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@antipodean said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@pukunui said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
In both 2007 and 2011 we had multiple 1st 5 injuries so it’s not out of the realm of possibility that it happens again.
One of the biggest problems with the military is its propensity to train to fight the last war. I don't think we should take a third five-eighth just because in the past we've occasionally required one. The disparity between the top two and Josh is immense. Better to take the best possible squad and then deal with eventualities as required.
It’s a pretty stupid analogy though. Like saying we don’t need to guard the back of the fort because the enemy attacked us from there last time, there is absolutely no way they will do that again.
Ideally BB and RM stay fit and they cover 10 against minnows from within the squad with Jordie goal kicking.
But worst case is RM and BB both pick up minor injuries during pool play and are out of the Qtr.
Then we are stuck with a makeshift starter and an even more makeshift backup who isn’t even a recognised goal kicker (the biggest plus of Jordie).
You can’t bring in Ioane for that one game because it means you then have a fit again RM or BB now sitting back in NZ watching Ioane, the guy you didn’t want in the first place, in the semi and final if we make it that far.All for an extra option on the wing because you can’t decide the first choice combo.
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@kiwiinmelb said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
In all fairness, I thought Ellis was pretty good that night , no superstar, but a calm head on his shoulders
Remembering Jimmy Cowan had forgotten how to play rugby through that tournament
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@canefan said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@kiwiinmelb said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
In all fairness, I thought Ellis was pretty good that night , no superstar, but a calm head on his shoulders
Ellis overtook Cowan as the bench option? I seem to recall Jimmy being the backup for a long time, can anyone remind me what the circumstances were?
He turned to shit
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@shark I don't really get the hate for Jordie Barrett from some on here. He made a big error in the Boks test last year, but wasn't solely to blame for defeat. He is an outstanding young player with great skills and versatility.
He might well be 10 for the Hurricanes next year. I see him developing into a 12 or a 13 eventually though.
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@sparky said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@shark I don't really get the Jordie hate from some on here. He made a big error in the Bok test last year, but wasn't solely to blame for defeat. He is an outstanding young player with great skills and versatility.
He might well be 10 for the Hurricanes next year. I see him developing into a 12 or a 13 eventually though.
He played well in the Lions series. He set up Julian Savea for a dead cert try in the decider only for Julian to shell the easy pass just like he did in the Super final a few years ago (this one was much easier). He is a very good goal kicker too
