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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="507859" data-time="1439382147">
<div>
<p>Biggest thing with poltics is you need to address the issues of the day, a lot of left wing groups were set up to protect workers, or the environment, or consumers, at a time when laws were not in place to do so. But once those areas are addressed you need to refocus. The lefties rerally seem to struggle to do that. They rail against the erosion of unions when in the UK unions mostly means the RMT (tube workers earning 50k a year & getting 40 days holiday). Thats not a fight anyone gives a shit about. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Its like they have a reason for coming into existance - protecting the lower & middle classes, and they are still fighting for that, even in areas its not needed. Trying to ensure the umemployed had a house was maybe an OK policy when the employed could afford a house, but when the employed middle class can't afford a house bitching that people disabled by their fat have to give up their spare room in their free house is not a vote winner...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Sam,e with unions, defending unions when half the country in in a union is great, defending the unions when the only experience the country has of unions is when they shut down london & cost you a days work, again, not a winner </p>
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</blockquote>
<p>this might be the smartest thing you have ever posted on here (and of, course, by that, i mean, it's smart because i agree with it...)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Unions fucking shit me, and i am as anti-union as it is possible to get. But, they most definitely had their place, and some of the things they fought for were very worthwhile, and just taken for granted by workers now. However, all that shit is now enshrined in legislation, and there are all manner of government bodies (especially here in Australia) willing to stomp all over you if they get a hint you are not keeping up your end of the bargain. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>These days? All they seem to be good for is attempting to bully companies into payrises they can't afford, driving companies offshore, and then whinging it was the company's fault. They'll claim victory if they get everyone a 4% payrise (double CPI), and then bag the company when it goes under 6 months later, drowned by the cost of its labour. And there are so many of them, and none of them can agree what the want. Remember the health debacle here in Aus a couple of years ago? I remember a spokesman for the Health minister coming out and saying half the problem was they were dealing with so many unions, and none of them could agree on what they wanted. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>In short, fuck the unions, it's not 1983 any more. </p> -
<p>I'm not a union person either but I reckon they still have their place. It's no longer the big issues though, of workers' rights, fair pay and decent working practices. As M4L says, these are already victories of long ago and looked after by legislation. The unions now need to re-consider their role, yes there can be collective bargaining but more and more they will find themselves fighting individual causes, not fighting on behalf of the whole workforce but of the one guy that is getting shafted by his overly promoted fuckwit of a boss that is being backed by the company. On his own that guy has little chance, with the union he's got options. The problem is that the people at the top in the unions (cue sweeping generalisation) can't face the fact that they are now basically an HR resource for the workers and probably not worth the six figure salary, union funded Jaguar and expenses.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I see this as the dinosaur factor. Certain political factions gain traction due to a narrow but important viewpoint, but what do they do once they gain that narrow victory? Ride off into the sunset with all the cheers ringing in their ears? Of course not, they try and find some other reason to be relevant. Imagine if in the UK that UKIP got what they wanted and we were out of Europe, that's their job done now so fuck off Nige, go back to your job as a broker. Doubt he'll want to do that, let alone all the closet racists in the party who have their own slightly more unpleasant agenda.</p> -
<p>Just saw an interview with Corbyn, I can't say I see him ever being pm. They also interviewed the other candidates over why they haven't challenged him over his bizarre ideas like re nationalising some businesses and they responded in glib soundbites completely ignoring the question or even really mentioning him at all. Its not overly surprising that some people are supporting him because he has at least some sort of vision for the UK and doesn't seemed to be prompted and preened for public consumption in the background by his own version of Alistair Campbell. For years I've been banging on about Labour here being only represented by career politicians who go from student unions at varsity to a union job or working for an mp to then being an mp without ever actually having any contact with the outside world and I guess the same thing has happened in the Uk which is how you ended up with a hateful beardo being more popular than three soulless career politicians.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Being on the extreme left Corbyns a big fan of Hamas and is close mates with a muslim hate preacher who thinks that Israel was behind 9/11 <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3191679/Jeremy-Corbyn-caught-video-calling-Muslim-hate-preacher-honoured-citizen-inviting-tea-terrace-House-Commons.html'>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3191679/Jeremy-Corbyn-caught-video-calling-Muslim-hate-preacher-honoured-citizen-inviting-tea-terrace-House-Commons.html</a> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>This reminds me of the election here last year, leftards banging away in their online echo chambers and thinking because they are getting likes and retweets that the rest of the world agrees with their ideas. ...until election night when the complete opposite of what they expected happened.You can pick Corbyn but he's so far out of step with the way the vast majority of people think he's got about the same chance of being pm that a one legged cat does of burying its turd in a frozen pond.</p> -
<p></p><p></p><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">[b][url=http://www.spectator.co.uk/life/long-life/9606652/jeremy-corbyns-debt-to-silvio-berlusconi/]Jeremy Corbyn’s debt to Silvio Berlusconi[/url][/b]<br><br>
By Alexander Chancellor<br>
August 15th, 2015<br><br>
I’m going off Jeremy Corbyn. He seems more and more pleased with himself by the minute. But I understand why he is so popular with Labour supporters. It isn’t just his perceived authenticity in a field of machine politicians — the same attribute that has thrust Donald Trump to the fore in the race for the Republican nomination in the United States. It is something of which I have been reminded this week by the news that Silvio Berlusconi is planning to sell his preposterous Sardinian villa to a Saudi prince, and this is the shame felt by so many party members over their long servility to Tony Blair. For perhaps nothing better exemplifies Blair’s indifference to Labour sensibilities than his visit with Cherie to the Villa Certosa in 2004.<br><br>
Despite the monastic implications of its name, the Villa Certosa is — to quote a headline from the Times — ‘the ultimate in property porn’. It is a sprawling estate on Sardinia’s Emerald Coast, with 168 acres of garden, six swimming pools, an amphitheatre, an artificial volcano, and direct access by tunnel to the sea. But despite the kind of security that would appeal to the Saudi royal family, this didn’t prevent one enterprising paparazzo from taking photos of a large number of scantily clad girls at one of Berlusconi’s ‘bunga bunga’ entertainments. The pictures included a remarkable one of a former Czech prime minister, Mirek Topolánek, completely naked and in a state of sexual arousal.<br><br>
Berlusconi, Italy’s longest-serving prime minister since Mussolini, was choosy about who he invited to the Villa Certosa (unless, that is, they were teenage models). Among foreign leaders, he would invite only those he regarded as his personal ‘friends’, such as George W. Bush and Vladimir Putin. But not even these giants on the world stage were fêted quite as lavishly as his really close ‘friend’, Tony Blair. The war in Iraq was at its height. Thousands were dying there. But this didn’t inhibit the gaiety of the celebrations during the Blairs’ 24-hour visit.<br><br>
Four years later Cherie Blair still recalled it with rapture. ‘I have never had an evening like the one I had in Sardinia,’ she said in an interview with an Italian magazine. ‘Fireworks lit up the words “Viva Tonyâ€, and we all sang “Summertime†together.’ Many in the Labour party had recoiled in horror at the sight of their leader cavorting shamelessly in public with a right-wing billionaire mired in financial and sexual scandal. Could it have been some diplomatic imperative that had driven him to accept this unwelcome invitation? Alas, no. In the same interview Cherie spoke with pride about the ‘friendship and trust’ that existed between Berlusconi and her husband.<br><br>
The two prime ministers had, of course, one or two things in common. They were united in subservience to President Bush and alone among the leaders of major European countries (apart from the little Spanish prime minister José MarÃa Aznar, who left office soon after it started) in their unswerving support for the 2003 invasion of Iraq. This colossal misjudgment, deeply unpopular in the Labour party at the time, has haunted Tony Blair ever since and has now been cited by Jeremy Corbyn as a possible pretext for trying him as a war criminal. Yet I feel that Blair’s taste for the high life, his habit of spongeing off the rich, and his addiction to glamorous foreign holidays sticks just as much in the craw of traditional Labour voters.<br><br>
Until 2001, when foot-and-mouth disease struck Britain, the Blairs used to stay regularly each summer in Tuscany with Prince Girolamo Guicciardini Strozzi, an aristocrat of the grandest and most ancient lineage. That he didn’t go back subsequently seems to have been thanks less to his own political sensitivity than to that of the Italian nobleman, who said in a newspaper interview at the time that ‘it would seem strange, as foot-and-mouth disease lays waste to the British tourism industry, for the prime minister to be seen going off with his family to Tuscany again. I wouldn’t do it. That’s for sure.’<br><br>
Since leaving office, Blair has been free to enrich and indulge himself as much as he wants, thus drifting ever further away from the party he once led. He may have given Labour 13 years in power, but at such discomfort to the party that many of its members would do anything to feel good about themselves again, even if it means languishing in opposition for a while yet. I don’t know where the Blairs are vacationing this summer, but Jeremy Corbyn isn’t having a holiday at all.<br><br>
This article first appeared in the print edition of The Spectator magazine, dated 15 August 2015</blockquote> -
<br><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="507055" data-time="1439118121"><p>
Wasn't there an ex-special forces dude that was a possibility for Labour? Forget the name, but he seemed like an ok candidate.</p></blockquote>Dan Jarvis. I suspect he'll be the Labour leader by the time of the 2020 general election.<br><br>
The Conservatives will need a new leader by then too. Cameron has repeatedly said he'll step aside before 2020. -
<p>Looks like around 40000 of Corbyns supporters voted twice for him <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3210801/40-000-union-activists-caught-voting-twice-Fears-grow-validity-Labour-s-leader-race.html'>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3210801/40-000-union-activists-caught-voting-twice-Fears-grow-validity-Labour-s-leader-race.html</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>And check out this charming individual who has drunk the Corbyn Kool aid <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/02/guardian-writer-if-burned-falklands-hero-knew-anything-hed-still-have-his-face/'>http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/02/guardian-writer-if-burned-falklands-hero-knew-anything-hed-still-have-his-face/</a></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="513192" data-time="1441258624">
<div>
<p>And check out this charming individual who has drunk the Corbyn Kool aid <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/02/guardian-writer-if-burned-falklands-hero-knew-anything-hed-still-have-his-face/'>http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/02/guardian-writer-if-burned-falklands-hero-knew-anything-hed-still-have-his-face/</a></p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Delightful. </p> -
Hahahahaha<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3231042/Jeremy-Corbyn-Steve-Brookstein-British-politics-s-just-won-phone-vote-British-public-not-going-buy-records-writes-MATT-CHORLEY.html">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3231042/Jeremy-Corbyn-Steve-Brookstein-British-politics-s-just-won-phone-vote-British-public-not-going-buy-records-writes-MATT-CHORLEY.html</a><br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/12/jeremy-corbyn-wins-labour-party-leadership-election">http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/12/jeremy-corbyn-wins-labour-party-leadership-election</a>
-
And Jeggas favourite beardo gets elected Labour leader. <br><br>
The thing is I'm not convinced he's unelectable in this day and age. If the economy goes south and the Tories do something stupid then his fleece the rich, more handouts policies could get him over the line. <br><br>
Hope Im wrong there but if Qld can vote in a functioning retard like Pallachook then anything can happen. -
And Jeggas favourite beardo gets elected Labour leader. <br><br>
The thing is I'm not convinced he's unelectable in this day and age. If the economy goes south and the Tories do something stupid then his fleece the rich, more handouts policies could get him over the line. <br><br>
Hope Im wrong there but if Qld can vote in a functioning retard like Pallachook then anything can happen. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="515400" data-time="1442098294">
<p>And Jeggas favourite beardo gets elected Labour leader.<br>
The thing is I'm not convinced he's unelectable in this day and age. If the economy goes south and the Tories do something stupid then his fleece the rich, more handouts policies could get him over the line.<br>
Hope Im wrong there but if Qld can vote in a functioning retard like Pallachook then anything can happen.</p>
</blockquote>
<br><p>Were the twitter warriors and leftard activists really chanting "Jez we can"?It would need a Greece style meltdown to see him win if he manages to last till the next election . It's quite alarming to see such a large group of people so out of touch with reality. I read somewhere that Cameron is further emasculating the unions over there and since no one in their right mind us going to donate to a party in which so many of its best mps have refused to be part of a shadow cabinet led by the beardo I'm guessing they won't have a lot of money to campaign with in 2020. I see the standard are engaging in a frothing self congratulatory circle jerk over the result and hoping it means the same thing might happen here. I hope so too hahahahaha<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11859233/The-day-the-Labour-Party-died.html">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11859233/The-day-the-Labour-Party-died.html</a></p> -
<p>Dear god , read the comments. Leftards keyboards around NZ must look like a plasterers radio right now. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://thestandard.org.nz/jeremy-corbyn-wins/'>http://thestandard.org.nz/jeremy-corbyn-wins/</a></p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="515398" data-time="1442098257">
<div>
<p>And Jeggas favourite beardo gets elected Labour leader.<br><br>
The thing is I'm not convinced he's unelectable in this day and age. If the economy goes south and the Tories do something stupid then his fleece the rich, more handouts policies could get him over the line.<br><br>
Hope Im wrong there but if Qld can vote in a functioning retard like Pallachook then anything can happen.</p>
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</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Of course he's electable. I've seen a number of his speeches and he comes across very well despite the rubbish in the media.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And especially compared to Miliband who came across as weird he is a million times more electable.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And a lot of his policy ideas are supported by the majority of voters</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Dropping the idea of a balanced budget. Sensible and economically sound. Especially using QE to finance more needed housing</p>
<p>Not selling off state owned assets and buying back some assets like railways and major utilities.</p>
<p>Not becoming involved in pointless wars</p>
<p>Having doubts about the EU</p>
<p>Dropping student fees</p>
<p>Scrap Britain's nuclear weapons</p>
<p>etc</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Generally he wants to make Britain (and the world) a fairer and more caring society with opportunities for all not just the rich.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But the propaganda media will lie and lie and lie about Corbyn. We can't have someone leading the UK with these dreadful views. It might start a disease that spreads to other countries.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="515419" data-time="1442106042">
<div>
<p>Were the twitter warriors and leftard activists really chanting "Jez we can"?It would need a Greece style meltdown to see him win if he manages to last till the next election . It's quite alarming to see such a large group of people so out of touch with reality. I read somewhere that Cameron is further emasculating the unions over there and since no one in their right mind us going to donate to a party in which so many of its best mps have refused to be part of a shadow cabinet led by the beardo I'm guessing they won't have a lot of money to campaign with in 2020. I see the standard are engaging in a frothing self congratulatory circle jerk over the result and hoping it means the same thing might happen here. I hope so too hahahahaha<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11859233/The-day-the-Labour-Party-died.html">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11859233/The-day-the-Labour-Party-died.html</a></p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Comparing the UK to Greece is economic ignorance. Although not as bad as clowns who compare Zimbabwe or Wiemar Germany to any Govt today who does a small amount of "money printing".</p> -
I'll most probably regret this, but could you please tell me what lies the "propoganda" media have brainwashed us with about Corbyn? <br><br>
But yes I agree that he wants a more equitable Britain. A Britain where every person is as poor as the other. -
If you read my post I didn't compare the Uk to Greece. <br><br>
As for belief that Corbyn is electable I now know why you support red peak . Only 20 of his mps support him because they think they have no chance of ever being in govt with a weirdo like Corbyn in charge . The older ones probably remember what life was like when Michael Foot was around . His open borders ideas have probably handed UKIP a lifeline at the expense of more labour votes especially on light of the hordes of " refugees " trying to force their way into Europe.<br><br>
But just like the flag thread I fully expect you to stick your fingers in your ears and say " I'm right and despite crushing evidence to the contrary you're all wrong ". -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="515487" data-time="1442137857">
<div>
<p>I'll most probably regret this, but could you please tell me what lies the "propoganda" media have brainwashed us with about Corbyn?<br><br>
But yes I agree that he wants a more equitable Britain. A Britain where every person is as poor as the other.</p>
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</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Like his economic policies will destroy the country for a start. Just idiotic nonsense.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And why do you think his policies like for example building more desperately needed homes or staying the f++k out of pointless wars will make people poorer. Or not selling off Govt assets on the cheap?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Or do you just believe anything you read in the papers without even thinking about it?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="515487" data-time="1442137857"><p>
I'll most probably regret this, but could you please tell me what lies the "propoganda" media have brainwashed us with about Corbyn? <br><br>
But yes I agree that he wants a more equitable Britain. A Britain where every person is as poor as the other.</p></blockquote> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="515493" data-time="1442138991"><p></p><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="515487" data-time="1442137857"><p>
I'll most probably regret this, but could you please tell me what lies the "propoganda" media have brainwashed us with about Corbyn? <br>
But yes I agree that he wants a more equitable Britain. A Britain where every person is as poor as the other.</p></blockquote></blockquote>
Cameron was asked to comment but he was busy doing this -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="515491" data-time="1442138800">
<div>
<p>If you read my post I didn't compare the Uk to Greece.<br><br>
As for belief that Corbyn is electable I now know why you support red peak . Only 20 of his mps support him because they think they have no chance of ever being in govt with a weirdo like Corbyn in charge . The older ones probably remember what life was like when Michael Foot was around . His open borders ideas have probably handed UKIP a lifeline at the expense of more labour votes especially on light of the hordes of " refugees " trying to force their way into Europe.<br><br>
But just like the flag thread I fully expect you to stick your fingers in your ears and say " I'm right and despite crushing evidence to the contrary you're all wrong ".</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>There's a differences between EU citizens and refugees. Corbyn is pro the UK accepting more refugees. Or at least not demonizing them.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think UKIP is mainly pissed off about the open borders EU policy. But unless the UK leave the EU and close their borders (which would mean leaving the single market whihc will not happen even if the EU vote to leave) nothing much can be done about this fact of life.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But what were you referring to?</p>
British Politics