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jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="513020" data-time="1441180623">Some of the comments on social media where that image of JK appear are downright disgraceful, but then these are simply personal attacks and these people see anything to do with Key as the ultimate evil designed solely for self interest. 
 
so how would you have done it Winger? 
 
That is YOUR opinion on the flags, so therefore you see the process as flawed. As for the Tino Rangatiratanga, I thought that wasnt even a flag for ALL Maori? 
 
Flag Panel seemed a decent cross section of NZ. 
 <ul class="bbc"><li>Prof John Burrows (Chair), ONZM, QC</li><li>Nicky Bell</li><li>Peter Chin, CNZM</li><li>Julie Christie, ONZM</li><li>Rod Drury</li><li>Kate De Goldi (Deputy Chair)</li><li>Beatrice Faumuina, ONZM</li><li>Lt Gen (Rtd) Rhys Jones, CNZM</li><li>Stephen Jones</li><li>Sir Brian Lochore, ONZ, KNZM, OBE</li><li>Malcolm Mulholland</li><li>Hana O'Regan.</li></ul></blockquote>
 
I'm not sure if you saw the bleating about the abs rwc squad being announced at parliament but there's a vocal minority who are hateful jerks and they seem to be able to take fairly innocuous things and twist them is really shitty ways. Apparently Key used our parliament buildings to promote Adidas , ffs get a life.

red terror

Option No. 1 (b/w fern) looks smaller than the others. Was there not a uniform size or is that an optical illusion?
 
(Edit: reading through Winger's posts now, I guess that confirms it's shorter. Very surprised there wasn't a standardized dimension in the call for entry.)

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="513033" data-time="1441183407">
<div>
 
The chair / presenter was an old man who is well past his best now for this sort of thing
 
I would have appointed a smaller committee (6 max as too many = the above outcome) with a younger (more trendy) chair who has a background in design. And at least half on the committee would need some sort fo design background. And the rest at least some appreciation of what works and doesn't work
 
For example BJ Lohore was an farmer and AB. Has he the right experience and training?
 
If I was on the committee I would have started the process by deciding on the appropriate colors
 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
So you need to be experienced in selecting flags and not too old,? What other criteria would you deem ok to select a flag? 
 
Not taking the piss, genuinely curious.
 
I havet read alot of the site, but do you know they didnt have a process they set of what each flag must say or represent?

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="513046" data-time="1441187383">
I'm not sure if you saw the bleating about the abs rwc squad being announced at parliament but there's a vocal minority who are hateful jerks and they seem to be able to take fairly innocuous things and twist them is really shitty ways. Apparently Key used our parliament buildings to promote Adidas , ffs get a life.</blockquote>
 
Yeah, John Key has his fans, but he also has some very passionate haters!! 
As I said eRlier in this thread, 
I wonder if these haters would be so against the vote, or at least the process if suggested by anyone else!

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="513055" data-time="1441189793">
<div>
Yeah, John Key has his fans, but he also has some very passionate haters!! 
As I said eRlier in this thread, 
I wonder if these haters would be so against the vote, or at least the process if suggested by anyone else!
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Good question, it is quite funny reading their spittle flecked posts and then reading the polls that have at 55% preferred prime minister. This is probably a taste of what will happen when we decide to become a republic, lots of petty pointscoring and pathetic comments about the process and I shudder to think of the process of sorting out a constitution.

No Quarter

To be honest I can kind of see where Winger is coming from. I can't really comment on how good the panel was, but at the end of the day the final 4 designs are pretty uninspiring. Changing the flag is something you only want to do once, so you want to do it right. I can see myself voting against changing it on the basis that we can try again down the track and hopefully get some better alternatives.
 
I see the NZRU was blocking the use of their trademarked Silver Fern - <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11507004'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11507004</a>
 
This part of the article probably answers JC's question about copyrighting if one of Kyle's flags wins:
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
If NZ Rugby had allowed its fern to be used on a flag and it made the final four, it would have had to assign all rights in it to the Crown at no cost.
</blockquote>

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="513055" data-time="1441189793">
<div>

I wonder if these haters would be so against the vote, or at least the process if suggested by anyone else!
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I'm not so sure about that. You all know I'm not Key's biggest fan but even I support the idea of looking at changing the flag. I also know plenty of folk that are huge Key supporters that are very anti change.
 
It's a really funny study of popular politics though as the 'Issue' itself is not one that is divided by political leanings so has no particular impetus by following.
If you look at the process you can also see how it was fairly well thought out to try and defuse criticism of rail-roading. Form a group of reasonably respected non political people, open the designs up to everyone (including the pisstakers and nutters), get us much public feedback as possible to narrow it down etc.....
Problem has been that because we aren't a nation of flag wavers in the first place, the middle ground is really uninspired. A more passionate feeling about change in the first place would have caused enough debate to get over some of the hurdles like 'the black flag, whether the Silver Fern is about sports, etc etc long before we were presented with 4 options that really don't include anything for people to go 'yeah, that looks great, I want that'

taniwharugby

but do you 'hate' Key...I am sure you have seen some of the stuff on Social Media/Comments sections, it is disgraceful TBH, so many articles (about any other topic) that get published, you only need scroll down the list before someone mentions their hate for Key or that it is somehow his fault (easy to spot the ones who are doing it as a joke because it has almost become a bit of a joke) regardless of the article!
 
Plenty have said it should have been Yea/nah to start with, rather than this way; but IMO that wouldn't work because if given that option, with no alternative up front, people will stick with the status quo, then there would be the conspiracy theorists who would say that if they vote yea a flag was ready and waiting to be raised, without due process, even if they thought a change was good.
 
I cant see how it could have been done much different TBH.

Sneakdefreak

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="513004" data-time="1441176646">
<div>
sadly there is a section of the NZ public that are probably not quite mature enough to have a discussion about changing the flag
 
<img src="https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11902475_737562629723635_4467866887497147826_n.jpg?oh=ba4b5554a34963232971f989d55237cc&oe=565D3E90" alt="11902475_737562629723635_446786688749714">
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Heh.

jegga

Compared to his competition Key looks pretty good which probably says more about his competition than him. Some of the hate he generates is bizarre though , I can understand it with someone like Judith Collins who likes to generate controversy but Key is innoffensive and fairly bland . So far this year his haters have accused him if getting Campbell fired because he was asking too many " hard" questions, the time he could have had Key on the ropes - over the GCSB he failed miserably and now he is actually employed by the govt . Loons 
Anyway the loons have some similarly bizarre conspiracy theories about the flag <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/the-flag-debate/71661495/flag-change-three-conspiracy-theories'>http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/the-flag-debate/71661495/flag-change-three-conspiracy-theories</a>

Rembrandt

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="513085" data-time="1441227209">
<div>
To be honest I can kind of see where Winger is coming from. I can't really comment on how good the panel was, but at the end of the day the final 4 designs are pretty uninspiring. Changing the flag is something you only want to do once, so you want to do it right. I can see myself voting against changing it on the basis that we can try again down the track and hopefully get some better alternatives.
 
I see the NZRU was blocking the use of their trademarked Silver Fern - <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11507004'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11507004</a>
 
This part of the article probably answers JC's question about copyrighting if one of Kyle's flags wins:
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I too am disappointed, although I certainly identify more with a couple of these flags more than the current one I'm not sure it is enough to make me vote for a change. The thing with a change is that barring some unfortunate military takeover it will be permanent whereas if we keep the same flag then we'll not doubt get another option to change in 20 years or so.
 
I can only assume that all the frothy-mouthed this-costs-too-much flag change haters will definitely vote for change in order to avoid another referendum in 20 years time...just like when the TPPA situation is sorted the tin-foil-hat-brigade will no doubt say they are ready to contemplate change now that the single issue that they can concentrate at a time is sorted.
 
I hope like hell these idiots are just a very vocal minority because if they are not then fuck this shit I'm moving back to the UK!

Rembrandt

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="513085" data-time="1441227209">
<div>
 
I see the NZRU was blocking the use of their trademarked Silver Fern - <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11507004'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11507004</a>
 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
My preference was the silverfern on black but a part of me was thinking it was looking like the poor cousin to the much more stylish AB silverfern.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="513085" data-time="1441227209">
<div>
I can see myself voting against changing it on the basis that we can try again down the track and hopefully get some better alternatives.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
You would be waiting decades.
I find it pathetic that parties that actually had a flag referendum as policy in the last election... Labour... are now saying it is a bad idea.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="513189" data-time="1441258276">
<div>
You would be waiting decades.
I find it pathetic that parties that actually had a flag referendum as policy in the last election... Labour... are now saying it is a bad idea.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Or their former leader who had 9 years to raise the refugee quota and didn't saying we should do it now.

taniwharugby

now it would 'appear' the ABs are not supposed to comment on the issue...which if is the case, is a joke, this is a major issue affecting all NZers, so if asked, they should be allowed ot express thier opinion, one side should not be afraid of sports peoples opinions will sway public opinion...
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71714192/all-blacks-must-stay-mum-on-their-flag-favourites'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71714192/all-blacks-must-stay-mum-on-their-flag-favourites</a>
 
I really must stop replying to the drones on social media when they post absolute shite! The irony of people on FB expressing thier opinion about how the ABs should not express thiers....

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="513189" data-time="1441258276">You would be waiting decades. 
I find it pathetic that parties that actually had a flag referendum as policy in the last election... Labour... are now saying it is a bad idea.</blockquote>
Let me put it this way: I am in favour of changing the flag, but not in favour of changing it to something that doesn't work. For me, 3 of the 4 options are too complicated, and the silver ferns look like feathers (badly designed). The other is black and white and just looks like a wave. 
If they are the best options we have, then we need to go back to the drawing board.

Donsteppa

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="513190" data-time="1441258470">Or their former leader who had 9 years to raise the refugee quota and didn't saying we should do it now.</blockquote>
 
Whatever the rights or wrongs of decisions made (then and now), hearing that line often feels like the political equivalent of a "we're crap but you're worse" chant.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="513198" data-time="1441262150">
Whatever the rights or wrongs of decisions made (then and now), hearing that line often feels like the political equivalent of a "we're crap but you're worse" chant.</blockquote>
 
They are equally crap IMHO, I was actually surprised to see she didn't raise the quota when labour were in power after she stepped up and took about 150 of the Tampa boat people which I thought at the time was a decent decision . Personally I think Europe helped create this mess and they can deal with it .

Winger

<img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN8dIZmUcAAahc_.jpg" alt="CN8dIZmUcAAahc_.jpg">
 
I not an Australian. But I like the green and yellow options I have seen. Esp the boomerang

red terror

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="513197" data-time="1441261658">
<div>
The other is black and white and just looks like a wave.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
It's not a terrible design, but imo the black should be replaced with a strong green.

The Silver Fern

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