Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?
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@sparky well TBH I never saw anything in Anscombe to suggest he'd be a viable option at 10 for the ABs then or down the track.
As has been the xcase with plenty of 'journeymen' that leave our shores and become very good players up North, often this is attributed to the 'lower standard' of rugby, but I think equally it is just a different style of play, more often a shade slower than ours, allowing them to reach thier peak or simply play more freely.
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@rotated said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
~25 tests out of it mostly off the bench is where the development problem is.
Who of DC, AC, BB and Slade would you have dropped to develop these pretenders, Sops aside who made the ABs when he hit peak form?
Not every age grade star makes it through. Bleyendaal, Anscombe and West never made the grade as 10s in NZ. Maybe if they had stuck around they would have, but it's not participation awards, they shouldn't have been handed tests before they're ready.
Also, Anscombe went from the Blues to the Super champions so it was probably an upward move if anything.
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@taniwharugby said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@sparky well TBH I never saw anything in Anscombe to suggest he'd be a viable option at 10 for the ABs then or down the track.
As has been the xcase with plenty of 'journeymen' that leave our shores and become very good players up North, often this is attributed to the lower standard of rugby, but I think equally it is just a different style of play, more often a shade slower than ours, allowing them to reach thier peak or simply play more freely.
And some players just get better.
After they both missed 2007 RWC selection Nonu (Tigers) and Weepu (Knights) were linked with moves to the NRL, but didn't make the switch. Most would not have given a second thought to either leaving after 4/5 years of Super Rugby performances as they were too undisciplined and inconsistent to be major contributors in black.
If Kaino was looking at overseas offers at the same time he could have joined them.
Some players just take longer to develop and thank goodness for that.
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@Chris-B said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@sparky said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
John Kirwan delisting Gareth Anscombe at the Blues looking a very poor decision with hindsight.
Well, JK was expounding his theories on replacement first fives on The Breakdown last night. As was Ali Williams.
It's no wonder Leon is looking like a genius at the Blues!
Worst episode ever!
Ahahaha, what a meeting of intellectual giants on the demands of the position that would be.
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@KiwiMurph said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
I think you'll find a big part of the reason for Anscombe de-listing was off the field.
And Nonu.
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@KiwiMurph said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
I think you'll find a big part of the reason for Anscombe de-listing was off the field.
Just wouldn't have been able to pull his weight under captain Ali Williams you think?
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Bearing in mind that the All Blacks lost to Ireland last year and Wales drummed them 25-7 in the recent Six Nations decider, I am not sure I agree 100% with your assertion that Wales play a lower standard of Rugby. Gatland's sides don't play at a million miles an hour, but goodness me they are efficient and organised.
Whatever difficulties Anscombe had for the Auckland Blues, he has blossomed since leaving NZ. The accuracy of Anscombe's short kicking game and his patience are vital components of the side ranked 2 in the world.
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@sparky said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
Bearing in mind that the All Blacks lost to Ireland last year and Wales drummed them 25-7 in the recent Six Nations decider, I am not sure I agree 100% with your assertion that Wales play a lower standard of Rugby. Gatland's sides don't play at a million miles an hour, but goodness me they are efficient and organised.
Whatever difficulties Anscombe had for the Auckland Blues, he has blossomed since leaving NZ. The accuracy of Anscombe's short kicking game and his patience are vital components of the side ranked 2 in the world.
I didnt say Wales played a lower standard of rugby, said this is what most (in NZ) attributed it to.
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Dan Carter said the big difference for him between playing Rugby in Europe than for New Zealand sides was the sound of the dressing room when discussing tactics.
For the All Blacks and the Crusaders, the dressing room and team meetings were noisy with players wanting to have a say on how they should play. The coaches trusted the players to take the lead on the field.
For Racing Club, the mood was different. The players were told what to do. They were expected to listen in silence. The coaches and the owners decided tactics and the players were their to execute the moves and tactics they were given. The very best European teams (England 2003, Ireland 2018 or Saracens) combine a bit of both.
I suspect Gareth Anscombe is happier being given tactics and a lead on what to do, whereas Aaron Cruden thrived in an environment where he was allowed to trust his instincts.
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@Nepia said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@rotated Of those Taylor was clearly in the frame and chose to leave, Sops is all about the Benjamin’s, Blyeendraal was a bit over hyped and did nothing of note, Ihaia never found his groove, and Anscombe was an average 10 for the Blues and an ok 15 for Chiefs.
Yep spot on. Can't recall when TT left but presumably there was a queue for the 10 jumper (Carter, Barrett, Cruden, Sopoaga) and I'm pretty sure he wasn't playing a lot of 10 anyway, certainly not at Super Rugby level where Blackadder liked to use him as a thoroughly uninspiring fullback.
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I think the ABs will make a call pretty early who they see as number 3 , they probably already know now
Get him in the system and back him all the way to the WC ,
That is how they usually do it
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@shark said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@Nepia said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@rotated Of those Taylor was clearly in the frame and chose to leave, Sops is all about the Benjamin’s, Blyeendraal was a bit over hyped and did nothing of note, Ihaia never found his groove, and Anscombe was an average 10 for the Blues and an ok 15 for Chiefs.
Yep spot on. Can't recall when TT left but presumably there was a queue for the 10 jumper (Carter, Barrett, Cruden, Sopoaga) and I'm pretty sure he wasn't playing a lot of 10 anyway, certainly not at Super Rugby level where Blackadder liked to use him as a thoroughly uninspiring fullback.
Tom Taylor refused to shift to the Blues, where he would have been a lock-in starter at #10. Instead he got shunted around the backline by Blackadder. Presumably he had his reasons for staying with Canterbury, but it made no sense to me.
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@Chester-Draws said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@shark said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@Nepia said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@rotated Of those Taylor was clearly in the frame and chose to leave, Sops is all about the Benjamin’s, Blyeendraal was a bit over hyped and did nothing of note, Ihaia never found his groove, and Anscombe was an average 10 for the Blues and an ok 15 for Chiefs.
Yep spot on. Can't recall when TT left but presumably there was a queue for the 10 jumper (Carter, Barrett, Cruden, Sopoaga) and I'm pretty sure he wasn't playing a lot of 10 anyway, certainly not at Super Rugby level where Blackadder liked to use him as a thoroughly uninspiring fullback.
Tom Taylor refused to shift to the Blues, where he would have been a lock-in starter at #10. Instead he got shunted around the backline by Blackadder. Presumably he had his reasons for staying with Canterbury, but it made no sense to me.
Makes perfect sense to me. Look at what happened to Steven Brett
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@SammyC said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@Chester-Draws said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@shark said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@Nepia said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@rotated Of those Taylor was clearly in the frame and chose to leave, Sops is all about the Benjamin’s, Blyeendraal was a bit over hyped and did nothing of note, Ihaia never found his groove, and Anscombe was an average 10 for the Blues and an ok 15 for Chiefs.
Yep spot on. Can't recall when TT left but presumably there was a queue for the 10 jumper (Carter, Barrett, Cruden, Sopoaga) and I'm pretty sure he wasn't playing a lot of 10 anyway, certainly not at Super Rugby level where Blackadder liked to use him as a thoroughly uninspiring fullback.
Tom Taylor refused to shift to the Blues, where he would have been a lock-in starter at #10. Instead he got shunted around the backline by Blackadder. Presumably he had his reasons for staying with Canterbury, but it made no sense to me.
Makes perfect sense to me. Look at what happened to Steven Brett
Nah, that's bullshit. Look what happened to Tom Taylor -- shovelled around the backline till he left the country, having never had a decent shot at making the ABs in his best positions. How'd that work out for him?
Stephen Brett's problem wasn't that he moved. It was that he wasn't as good as his boosters made out.
Maybe shifting might not have worked for Tom Taylor either. But he'll never know whether he could have made the big time with a decent run as a first choice.
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@Chester-Draws Yes I don't know why Tom Taylor didn't shift. Canterbury players are weird like that. Yes their culture is great which we hear about all the time but stuff like that is just plain stupid, similar to Dom Bird refusing to go to the Blues. They'd rather rot away on the bench or play club rugby instead of challenging themselves to benefit their careers and give the cop out excuse saying they'd rather learn off the guys starting ahead of them which gets them nowhere.
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@African-Monkey said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@Chester-Draws Yes I don't know why Tom Taylor didn't shift. Canterbury players are weird like that. Yes their culture is great which we hear about all the time but stuff like that is just plain stupid, similar to Dom Bird refusing to go to the Blues. They'd rather rot away on the bench or play club rugby instead of challenging themselves to benefit their careers and give the cop out excuse saying they'd rather learn off the guys starting ahead of them which gets them nowhere.
Bird went to the Chiefs so that may have been a specifically Blues thing on that occasion.
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@Nepia Most likely haha but he turned down the Blues in 2013 and ended up wasting his time in club rugby towards the end of his time at the Crusaders and then funnily enough found form once he was getting regular gametime after leaving.
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