Nations Championship?
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@Nepia said in World League Rugby:
@rotated You seem to be the only one who is looking at this positively - what are your reasons?
Primarily because it is the best model I've seen presented and it's superior to the status quo.
Even if the ABs make the semi-finals and final they will play 1 test less than their current non-RWC year schedule. What's more, the brutal Argentina -> South Africa road trip will be either eliminated or happen bi-annually. Player welfare arguments fall on deaf ears to me - this is a net player welfare improvement at least from a NZ perspective.
It seemingly would decouple the revenue streams from TRC and Super Rugby and potentially lead to a rationalization of the domestic competitions over time.
I am absolutely open to other proposals, but IMO if you are going to criticize a model for leaving the PIs behind at this point you need to propose something that can incorporate them. They bring no revenue and no domestic infrastructure or growth potential - no model I have seen can overcome those obstacles.
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World Rugby’s plan for a new global league of Test matches is said to be “dead in the water” after leading international players took the unprecedented step of speaking out against the proposal.
Reports of the latest version of World Rugby’s vision, which were published in the New Zealand Herald, sparked outrage on social media after it was revealed the Pacific Islands would be excluded from the 12-team league, with no prospect of promotion or relegation for 12 years.
There were also renewed fears over whether Lions tours would have to be scrapped and if rugby would be broadcast on domestic television as part of the deal.
But Six Nations sources last night said the proposal had been all but killed off by the shock intervention of three of the sport’s most senior figures in England captain Owen Farrell, New Zealand skipper Kieran Read, and reigning World Player of the Year Johnny Sexton.
All three are members of the International Rugby Players Council and after taking part in a conference call of 40 players they warned that welfare issues would render the World League unworkable.
New Zealand skipper Kieran Read
New Zealand skipper Kieran Read was also opposed to the idea CREDIT: GETTY IMAGES
Sexton, who is President of the International Rugby Players Association, said: “It now seems like a commercial deal on the future of the game is being negotiated at a rapid pace with little consideration given to the important points we raised with World Rugby in November.“The issue of player load has never been so topical, however needs to be properly understood. To suggest that players can play five incredibly high-level test matches in consecutive weeks in November [as would be the case under the latest proposals], is out of touch and shows little understanding of the physical strain this brings.”
Read warned of “fatigued players playing a reduced quality of rugby as part of a money-driven, weakened competition” and Farrell added the proposal “doesn’t seem to have considered [player welfare and release issues] properly and shows no sign of improving this already difficult situation.”
World Rugby insiders are thought to have been rocked by the reaction, having been caught by surprise by the release of the players’ statements. And it is thought the intervention by the players will prove decisive in the battle for rugby’s future.
One senior Six Nations source said: “This is dead in the water. We have always been very sceptical about this proposal as there are so many hurdles to overcome, not least the concerns about player welfare, the impact it would have on the World Cup and the disruptions to the domestic season.
“The fact that leading players have also spoken out now shows that it will be an impossible sell now.”
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My query is what we have now no longer works. We seem to just flow through the seasons waiting for the world cup. The regularity that we play Aus/SA has gotten stale and it seems like an eternity since we had meaningful June tests.
It is a shame we cannot simply have a 12 team round robin with +2-2 relegation and have maybe 3 grades. No semis or finals.
The biggest reason this won't work is broadcasters want guaranteed eyeballs and if Japan, USA, Italy etc drop to 2nd division their income will drop and the broadcaster will have a harder time selling the games.
Also I don't think an extra 10 million is all that much a year. In 12 years time 10 million will not be worth what it is today.
Any ideas on what they should look at doing?
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@mariner4life I'm not suggesting this will fix those problems. But it might fix one.
Because we have so few games on offer, we need to make every home Wallaby game count.
So that's why it's maddening when we have random friendly games against Scotland or Italy, or a bland RC game against Argentina when both countries are out of the running for the title.
Under this proposal, we still have those games but they now there are some stakes attached. There's a reason to watch, a reason to win.
Add to that a bit of extra $$$, and it could make a legitimate difference here.
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@Paekakboyz said in World League Rugby:
@barbarian but as noted in a few places it has huge potential to mess with the domestic or club level game. Where attendance is already an issue, not to mention the death of day time games to promote viewing. All for new ideas but to spike such push back from players associations doesn't speak well for WR consultation.
How would it impact the domestic game?
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@barbarian said in World League Rugby:
@mariner4life I'm not suggesting this will fix those problems. But it might fix one.
Because we have so few games on offer, we need to make every home Wallaby game count.
So that's why it's maddening when we have random friendly games against Scotland or Italy, or a bland RC game against Argentina when both countries are out of the running for the title.
Under this proposal, we still have those games but they now there are some stakes attached. There's a reason to watch, a reason to win.
Add to that a bit of extra $$$, and it could make a legitimate difference here.
they are not friendlies, they are tests. Also i find the way you said that pretty condescending considering for the past few years, those teams have absolutely been your peers (okay, maybe not Italy, they are fucking rubbish).
If you require some points system for the end of the year to get eyeballs, perhaps you have already lost? Is this just coming back to the biggest problem being the Wallabies are a bit rubbish?
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Lesson here is WR don't appear to have listened and pushed ahead with a plan that has potential, but without player sign-off. You can't just switch consultation on and off with your key resource and expect things to go perfectly to plan. I think nearly everyone involved in rugby wants things to change - but clearly the current offering isn't going to progress.
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@Paekakboyz Unless, as WR have stated, this was just a proposal mooted 24 hours ago, has been leaked as 'the plan' when it is just 'a possibility'. Now that might also be bollox and backtracking!
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@barbarian borrowing from what I was hearing this morning on radio. If this deal is tied into a global broadcaster type deal (not confirmed, just conjecture on my part) say with Amazon or another web-based provider it'd drastically reduce $$ for anyone broadcasting at national level. Sky NZ are already battling lower subs after losing rights to the World Cup. If they were to lose all international rugby how much do they think they can charge for super rugby (or whatever might replace that), let alone our national comps.
I know NZR will be working hard to ensure any big jumps/changes in international $$ help support those lower levels. Also aware that's not a unique situation for NZ, but it's another factor in scheme of things. Which is a concern when listening to Nichols and the player comments that WR has started to really push fast with their plans.
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@mariner4life said in World League Rugby:
they are not friendlies, they are tests. Also i find the way you said that pretty condescending considering for the past few years, those teams have absolutely been your peers (okay, maybe not Italy, they are fucking rubbish).
If you require some points system for the end of the year to get eyeballs, perhaps you have already lost? Is this just coming back to the biggest problem being the Wallabies are a bit rubbish?
I think plenty of scribes often refer to the June and November tests as friendlies. They serve no purpose apart from World Ranking points.
I guess the question is are you happy with the current system? If no, what do you propose as a solution?
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@mariner4life said in World League Rugby:
they are not friendlies, they are tests. Also i find the way you said that pretty condescending considering for the past few years, those teams have absolutely been your peers (okay, maybe not Italy, they are fucking rubbish).
The problem with those teams is not the quality per se, but the randomness of it all. There's no tradition, there's no meaning. The full time whistle blows and the result is immediately forgotten.
So besides the World Cup and the Bledisloe, we lurch through these games that really don't mean much. And yes it is 'Test Rugby' but does that cut through to the wider sporting public any more?
Somewhat paradoxically it's why I'm a fan of three-test series like Ireland last year. It gives matches a meaning, a reason for people to watch beyond just the fact it's test rugby.
The World League concept may not fix that, but there is a chance it might help. A game against Italy can be seen in a broader picture - we need the points to take us to third on the ladder, and if Wales lose to Argentina we may jump to second.
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@Machpants sounds like it is bollocks - at least if you take the player comments etc at face value. Even Tew danced around how they put forward the player concerns and emphasis on this being good for pacific unions.
From Pichot's tweets he also highlighted some stuff that he disagreed with, or further info that either hasn't made it out, or he's clouding the picture intentionally.
Who knows for sure? but my feeling is that WR has been caught on the hop, which is in itself concerning given their 'consultation' etc. Will be very interesting to see what they go to from here!
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@chimoaus said in World League Rugby:
@mariner4life said in World League Rugby:
they are not friendlies, they are tests. Also i find the way you said that pretty condescending considering for the past few years, those teams have absolutely been your peers (okay, maybe not Italy, they are fucking rubbish).
If you require some points system for the end of the year to get eyeballs, perhaps you have already lost? Is this just coming back to the biggest problem being the Wallabies are a bit rubbish?
I think plenty of scribes often refer to the June and November tests as friendlies. They serve no purpose apart from World Ranking points.
I guess the question is are you happy with the current system? If no, what do you propose as a solution?
No i am not happy with the current system. But only because of the relative weakness of the Africans and especially the Aussies, and the disappointing lack of improvement in Argentina. If you could guarantee me 6 close, tense test matches against those teams every year i would probably take it.
Given the severe roadblocks, limitations, and constraints in place, i am not too sure what SANZAR could do any better to be honest.
As for can i see a solution? Not one that benefits NZ to be honest. I am not sure how you structure some sort of global season given the limited number of nations, the huge wealth disparity, the spread of nations, the strength of the European club game and the 6N, while simultaneously taking in to account commercial realities and player welfare.
And unlike Barbarian's take on the tests in Australia, i can see some teams looking at the end goal, and resting players for the game in NZ to target a game in Aus the week after, as it gives the best chance of 5 points and heading up the table. That's arrogant, but also a very real possibility.
If the current structures are maintained up North, i pessimistically can't see many outcomes for a global season that don't end up being a soccer-like model. And that absolutely sucks for NZ.
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Perhaps they need to look at other professional sports and how they divide up the revenue earning of each competition. I believe the Premier League soccer is split evenly amongst the 20 clubs, I believe the NFL has something similar.
Perhaps a revenue sharing model whereby a certain percentage of the profits of each game are split 50/50. We seem to have a very lopsided system at the moment which heavily favours the unions with the biggest populations and stadiums etc.
I really have no idea however it has to be seen as a positive that they are discussing it.
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This is an interesting read, and relevant. Saw it on sportsfreak
not finished it yet, but here is it is:
Ben Ryan: ‘If rugby were a company people would be comparing it to an Enron’
Fiji’s gold-medal winning sevens coach tells Robert Kitson he is unhappy with the direction he believes the game is moving in – from the treatment of tier-two nations to laws being overlooked by referees
Sportsfreak:
(https://www.sportsfreak.co.nz/a-solution-looking-for-a-problem/) -
@nzzp said in World League Rugby:
This is an interesting read, and relevant. Saw it on sportsfreak
not finished it yet, but here is it is:
Ben Ryan: ‘If rugby were a company people would be comparing it to an Enron’
Fiji’s gold-medal winning sevens coach tells Robert Kitson he is unhappy with the direction he believes the game is moving in – from the treatment of tier-two nations to laws being overlooked by referees
Ben Ryan. Guardian.
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@rotated said in World League Rugby:
@Nepia said in World League Rugby:
@rotated You seem to be the only one who is looking at this positively - what are your reasons?
Even if the ABs make the semi-finals and final they will play 1 test less than their current non-RWC year schedule. >
In one of the reports they said that there would probably be a second Bledisloe test; so if that happens, the number of tests will be the same.
