Hurricanes 2019 Discussion
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@gt12 said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@crucial said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@gt12 said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@crucial said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@canes4life said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@tim Painful isn't it. Any one of us could have come up with a better list of squad players and these guys get paid for it.
Funny how in their season review they saw srummaging as a real weakness, yet they bring back every single player from that campaign, including the scrum coach who has been there far too long. If this was the NFL, none of them would have a job anymore.
Some people just don't get that, unlike big money US sports, Super Rugby franchises in NZ don't get the options of clean slate selections to fix areas.
Of course fans could write a wish list better squad but they don't have to pay the bills, break the contracts etc etc. They don't have to negotiate with agents demanding 2 year contracts to secure services. Or try and secure potentially good players before league/NH/another franchise takes them away and they then cop endless criticism from fans for letting someone slip away.
This isn't directed just at C4Ls frustrations but across nearly all the Super selection threads where the system and circumstances we have to deal with are causing misdirected criticism.
I'm not saying we shouldn't point out the problems or look for better, but at least temper criticism with a better understanding of the system these selections are done in.
I'd much rather that MMac had departed the Chiefs and another option was found, but I suspect there wasn't much choice.Not to clog up the Canes thread, but there was a choice - whether it was this year or last year, MMac was shit from far beyond 18 months ago. So, why the fuck is he still contracted? Someone either fucked up last year, or fucked up this year - either way the chiefs are a worse team as a result. That's totally on Cooper.
I think most teams end up with an experienced but limited backstop player every now and then. It happens when other options are still a season or so away from this level and there is a toss up between taking a risk on the unknown or taking the devil you know will play a role. Cooper has previously said that MMac plays a big part in training and inferred that his knowledge outstrips his ability. Weigh all that up when you already have a number of youngsters and it makes a little more sense.
No it doesn't. He's been included as an outside back. If you're rationale is correct, then he should be the third first five, and that's bad enough. But he's not, he's been selected as a fullback! Despite various other better options being (potentially) available, we've got him. Rayasi went to the Canes, but we could have had him with (perhaps) some effort. Olmstead doesn't have a contract, but we could have potentially had him and strengthened our loose forward mix, but we have MMac and Debreveskhgly - nether of whom any of us really want to see in a chiefs jumper.
Aren't you missing the point that this decision was most likely made last year, not this?
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To return to the general point - even about Canes props, to get on topic - the point I'm trying to make is that we can't give coaches a free pass for bad decisions that cost them the following year. They literally get paid to think about that shit. And, most Cane fans may have already been wondering about why the fuck the Canes don't try to develop or pick better props, rather than continuing to re-sign rather shabby ones. In the same vein, Cooper's shit choice to re-sign MMac last year means that he shouldn't make a similar shit choice this year to sign Dbrecvneehksy.
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@gt12 There are some very young, good props coming up in the Canes catchment, who are still too young and green for SR. Examples have been mentioned in this thread: Farrell, Tavita-Metcalfe from the Bay; I think someone mentioned Numia (Wellington). Hopefully, the Canes have signed some of them on development contracts, particularly Farrell, a good LH. Unfortunately, these signings are hardly ever published, but they'll likely play for Canes U20 or Canes Dev in 2019.
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@gt12 said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
To return to the general point - even about Canes props, to get on topic - the point I'm trying to make is that we can't give coaches a free pass for bad decisions that cost them the following year. They literally get paid to think about that shit.
Maybe not a free pass, but an understanding that any choice that goes wrong gets you stuck for a couple of years. You have to make educated decisions but those decisions also have to factor in the current recruiting environment and who else is available. 2 years seems to be a minimum for most.
FFS on the Saders thread they are arguing whether 3 or 5 years is better because they have better pulling power.Every year we get comments made as if coaches get to work with clean slates to fix problems
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Hurricanes extend All Blacks loose forward
Gareth Evans was one of the standout players for the Hurricanes during the 2018 Super Rugby season.
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It's a real shame the Canes were blocked from pinching Akira. I reckon Evans and Savea playing left and right with Akira at the back would've been a mean super rugby loose trio. Evans was good when he came on last night.
As it stands it appears the Canes will field a fairly benign forward pack in 2019 with only one or two starting players who can make the gain line in heavy traffic.
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@toddy If guys like Coles, Savea, Aumua, Fifita, Evans, Fidow, Cridge & Walker-Leawere stay fit, then we have plenty of fowards to get us across the gain line. The problem will be if those guys start getting injured then there isn't much x factor behind that group - exactly the reason why our campaign derailed this year. Players like Henwood, Bedwell Curtis, Blackwell, Prinsep, Mitchell, Riccitelli, Armstrong etc are probably more the grinders - they aren't good enough to win titles on their own but are needed to help those x factor types express themselves as they do the simple shit well.
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This photo gives an idea of which players without a full contract were training with the Canes during the first part of preseason.
2018 Surf To Peak Champion this morning was Richard Judd, so he's still there.
I also spot Devan Flanders and Danny Toala. On other photos I've also seen Kianu Kereru-Symes. Possibly also Lincoln McClutchie, although I haven't seen photos of him during training, but he was in Wellington with Toala.
Peter U-J is also still there, despite not getting a new contract.
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@stargazer said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
This photo gives an idea of which players without a full contract were training with the Canes during the first part of preseason.
It also raises the question as to who is actually paying the uncontracted players for their services as I know of at least one instance of a player being denied the right to play in the NPC as an amateur a couple of years back.
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Richard Judd was named in the original squad.
Players that weren't named in the original squad but have been spotted in photos have been:
Naitoa Ah Koui - Wellington Lock
Xavier Numia - Wellington Prop
Taine Plumtree - Wellington Lock
Ben Power - Hawkes Bay Hooker
Danny Toala - Hawkes Bay Fullback
Teariki Ben Nicholas - Wellington No 8
Devan Flanders - Hawkes Bay No 8
Kianu Keruru-Symes - Hawkes Bay Hooker
Carlos Price - Wellington Halfback
Malo Tuitama - Wellington Wing
Peter Umaga Jensen - Wellington Utility (was only left out of original squad naming because of injury aparantly) -
Peter Umaga-Jensen has been very unlucky with injuries. He was named in the 2017 Hurricanes squad but was replaced before Christmas 2016 due to injury.
Having those non-contracted players training in the environment before Christmas is a good idea and probably just standard now, almost like wider-training group members.
Before Christmas 2017 the Chiefs had a non-contracted guy called Karl Tu'inukuafe training with them ...
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@cgrant said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
Ben Nicholas : this is good news. He was the standout player for the Wellington Lions this year. I just could not understand why he wasn't offered a contract.
You are limited to 37 (or is it 39) contracted players so you can't pick 'em all, especially if "lesser" players are on two year contracts.
Hurricanes Loose Forwards for 2019
Heiden Bedwell-Curtis
James Blackwell (Loosie/Lock)
Gareth Evans
Vaea Fifita
Sam Henwood
Du Plessis Kirifi
Reed Prinsep
Ardie SaveaFrankly, I'd be happy if they signed him up and ditched one of those first five eight guys in favour of an extra loosie (where there are usually big numbers of injury unavailabilities) as one of the first fives must be counting his blessings to be offered a Super Rugby contract.
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@Canes4life I was about to complain that they've got the wrong Hawkes Bay hooker there but I see they have Kereru-Symes as well as Power.
Do you know which of them are on development contracts (aside from Flanders)?
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@Nepia I think those on development contracts would be Numia, Umaga Jensen, Flanders, Keruru-Symes, Price, Ben Nicholas
Guys like Ah Koui, Plumtree, Power, Toala probably a bit green for Super level just yet.
Also saw Chase Tiatia in one of the photos.
Visit this facebook page for more images of pre season. https://www.facebook.com/adrenalinforestNZ/
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https://www.hurricanes.co.nz/squad/current-squad/
Page has been updated I think
