All Blacks v Argentina - Nelson
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina - Nelson:
I really want Alaimalo in the AB setup ASAP. He's very classy and his game looks well suited to test footy. I hope they don't persist with NMS for much longer.
FABGB
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@bones said in All Blacks v Argentina - Nelson:
@nzzp haven't watched it again but that would usually be what your blindside winger is tracking to tidy up...
It was the one fear I had before the test that given the pace of the Argies backs, NMS would be exposed.
The Argies showed against the Boks that with width they have the passing and running game to trouble any side. Hopefully they bring it next weekend.
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Great game, props to the Argies who are getting better but I thought the score line was fair. If you are going to live by the sword you will die by it against ABs. That we can roll out ALB, Karl T., Frizell is just amazing. TJP’s best game in black, once injuries pass we will be spoilt for prop depth. Was pretty disappointed with our wings though, no way you can tell me that we don’t have better choices playing in Mitre 10. Also I think Coltman’s throwing has to be better than Harris. Would still love to see atom Franklin brought into the squad to.
What is really noticeable to me is the level of our forwards ball handling skill. They have worked hard on some of those pressure handling situations since 2012 and I think it is really paying off. Tough for other teams to consistently match this.
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@dmx said in All Blacks v Argentina - Nelson:
What is really noticeable to me is the level of our forwards ball handling skill. They have worked hard on some of those pressure handling situations since 2012 and I think it is really paying off. Tough for other teams to consistently match this.
They did a fun little montage on Rugby Nation last night comparing 2012 to 2018 of the forwards ball handling in those 'pod take it to to the line and then distribute' tactic.
I confess, back in 2012 and 2013 i thought that tactic was a bit arrogant, good time rugby not test rugby. Capable of shredding a team on a good day but opening ourselves up to be flattened on a bad day.
Also, it seemed predictable back then. Retallick was the only distributor and even if successful pass and catch was executed the catcher would get 2 metres forward and be isolated and turned over as Retallick was also tackled as he distributed.
These days we have Retallick, S Barrett, O Franks as potential distributors, and with runners left and right, and 2 out of those 3 dangerous runners in their own right, better handling and timing skills. It's very dangerous.
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I thought against Oz1 the little pass between the two forwards was getting far too obvious, the Ozzies picked it up most of the time in the first half. But it makes me wonder, is this on purpose, it means the opposition defence have to make two tackles every time. Because it is so late, the tackle the passer and the receiver. Must make for hard work. But as the game/games went on the variation of the forwards passes increased, to an amazing level. Then I watched the Oz SA game an was appalled by the lack of skills. Maybe I'm spoilt with watching the ABs but the Oz/SA forwards did nothing at all passing wise, just run it into contact. Bugger all offloads too, it was so bad it was like League
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@machpants also a tactic to draw in Pocock to make the tackle thus meaning it is that little bit harder for him to pilfer.
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@taniwharugby Yeah that on has been around since the RWC2011!
Laughed at The Wrap by Geoff Parkes on theroar.com.au (ref the other game)
"The word ‘resilience’ could just as easily be applied to fans of both sides, forced to sit through a muddling, mostly skill-free affair, expected to front up again next weekend, anticipating a better performance."
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@machpants and yet Aus persist with a tactic that is easily nullified.
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At about the 60 minute mark. My eyes were telling me that NZ would have been better off slowing this game down, working some set pieces etc if they could.
My mind was telling me. Don't be fooloed. Remember recent history between these 2 teams. This is when it starts to change.
On the scoreboard I guess it did finally, but only in the last 10 mins? Argentina ended up dominating the second half possesion and territory stats - both by about 66-67%.
Was quite a strange game. It will be interesting to see what part the 1014 show choose to analyse as there were quite a few anomolies in this game.
For a while I've thought the "superior fitness" explanantion is just lazy analysis.
I do think the early subs in the first 10 minutes delayed the NZ bench pulling the game away.
I also think we had an extremely inexperienced 15 out on the field for most of the last 20 minutes (very valuable). -
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@bones said in All Blacks v Argentina - Nelson:
@nzzp haven't watched it again but that would usually be what your blindside winger is tracking to tidy up...
Not the way the AB's line up in defence in open play.
The 2 wingers defend flat.
10 drops back, and we play 2 fullbacks.
Halfback plays as a sweeper between the defensive line and the 2 fullbacks.I was quite a fan of B Smith playing 14 if it means we can get a better goal kicking fullback (Jordie or DMac). But:
- It means B Smith at the back only for set piece (which there are bugger all of in modern rugby)
- I know there's now not enough time before RWC to integrate a new 15 and strip the goalkicking off Beauden.
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@rapido said in All Blacks v Argentina - Nelson:
This was the playing 15 at the end of the match (inlcding Savea and Frizell each playing 80 for the first time in months):
Smith
Milner-Skudder
Goodhue
ALB
McKenzie
Mo'uga
TTT
L Whitelock
Savea
Frizell
S Whitelock
S Barrett
Tu'ungafasi
Harris
PerryImpressed with Scotty Barrett, Ardie and Frizzell putting in big 80 minute performances. They all stepped up and finished strongly.
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@rapido said in All Blacks v Argentina - Nelson:
I do think the early subs in the first 10 minutes delayed the NZ bench pulling the game away.
I also think we had an extremely inexperienced 15 out on the field for most of the last 20 minutes (very valuable).Yep losing Laumape and BBBR so early certainly takes a bit of punch out of our bench, and with so few experienced heads out there at the 70 min mark, I think they pulled through well
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina - Nelson:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina - Nelson:
I really want Alaimalo in the AB setup ASAP. He's very classy and his game looks well suited to test footy. I hope they don't persist with NMS for much longer.
FABGB
Fark anyone would be more effective than NMS right now. Jules at least still had a bit of power even if his pace was gone.
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@taniwharugby Well I used to have high hopes for this guy but he has been disappointing. Hopefully he pulls his finger out of his ass and starts realizing his potential.
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pretty good game i thought. frizz wylie eh? easily the best (and maybe the only?) 80 minutes i've seen from him. i used to hate the shitty pop pass tactic from e.g. franks to romano - the ball skills weren't quite there, nor the impact running - but when we start doing that well, and to frizzell (or akira etc), then... well, tough to stop. frizzell did fade out for a long period after starting on fire, but came back towards the end well too. good stuff.
i think the comments here are pretty harsh on NMS. i personally would not have picked him - would prefer to see him turn it on at the lower level first - but he's always been a stepper and offloader - he's simply never been a fast guy. i'd be surprised if they would play him if he tested heaps slower than previous. he may come back, he may not - but the reason for whichever way that goes will be that first step of his - a really fast change of direction and burst of acceleration, not his speed in a run to the line, which has always been shit by ab winger standards.
mo'unga looked nervous - he's not a guy who misses touch. still did a lot of good stuff though, and his flat passing game gives guys outside him space. he's a keeper, and will be better for the experience.
tj perenara - such a good all round footy player, but jeez i miss aaron smith when tj plays. the speed of ruck delivery is just not the same.
midfielders really good, goodhue looks like he's been there forever. naholo and ben smith okay, but not their best days out. mckenzie is great. people forget how little 10 he has actually played so far, he's come a long way already - but for some reason he gets labelled as a 'never gonna be good enough' for his shit errors, while someone like jordie gets a free pass. the way he keeps himself in play, and has multiple involvements in attacking movements is bloody great to watch.
harris can't throw right now, which unfortunately is just not acceptable - in general - but definitely not in the closing stages of test matches. when we get a close game, he could well lose it for us. props good. locks good. loosies good.
for the argies... i like to think i can be objective enough to appreciate good play by the opposition - most of the time i'm probably kidding myself a bit, but the argie winger turning us inside out was a thing of real beauty. they're the new france. big forwards, small backs playing a high skill, high risk game. when it comes off, it's bloody hard to stop and great to watch, good luck to them. they'l be disappointed with the scrum, but i think they were missing a prop? would also like to see Isa back - has he been injured or something? as long as they keep the filth to a minimum they are one of the best teams to watch i reckon. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina - Nelson:
i think the comments here are pretty harsh on NMS.
Some are. One thing to remember about his try was he basically had to stop to gather in the pass from Cody. The cover from Argentina was at full pace.
That doesn't excuse him coming off his wing leaving his man unmarked to score a try.
