Boxingball
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@barbarian said in Boxingball:
@siam said in Boxingball:
Poor Australia, acted like fluffybunnies but those Philipino are the disgrace for not taking shit, yeah right
I don't disagree with a lot of your post - our bloke started the fight. It was a pretty nasty elbow and he deserved to be ejected, and maybe suspended.
I'm not sure if what happened after that point was proportional to the original act, though.
The Aussies aren't blameless, and a few of our players don't deserve much sympathy. But to excuse the actions of the Filipinos because 'they didn't start it' is pretty ridiculous.
You're correct there is no excuse for the retaliation of the Philipinos, and we agree on pretty much all the factors at play.
Please let me explain why I think the Philipino reaction pails in insignificance to the Aussie elbow to the head.
Watching that footage was not one bit surprising to anyone who's ever seen a melee. There was nothing particularly outrageous about this melee, I've been in some before and they are fucking scary and infectious. It was no different to many all in brawls we've all seen in all cultures from local sports to politicians to football hooligans and political protests.
It lasted about 2-5 minutes which is probably a bit short, but it was no more noteworthy than the 100,000 odd, melees on you tube and all the ones we've seen on telly or the net.
Yet the tut tutting and outrage that a group of emotionally charged players and spectators behaved in a typically human way in such circumstances is pretty naieve in my opinion. Granted I've spent most of my life with these people so I'm no stranger to the non triviality of violence.
The typical human behviour from this group was also deplorable and horribly excessive.
But this behaviour, from any group, is not going to go away by virtue of our outrage, condemnation or appeals to decency.
That's a sad state of affairs for sure, but no less truthful or realistic.
So I don't condem the crowd, fuck man that country is so corrupt and hard that it's like condemning the lion that bites the tourist on a range in Africa. You won't get any more than 10% of the Philippine poulation to agree that the crowd was wrong to retaliate in the manner they did.
Most will say "serves them right", probably for throwing the first punch.So that's why in the midst of proper shitty behaviour from both camps, I think the spotlight here should be shined on the first punch because that's what caused the shit and that is far easier to remedy than a tribes penchant for such violence.
That's the lesson here for me, in this nonsense situation. Not lecturing 103 million people about why dummy spitting is bad but reminding our kids that punching people in the face is an act that should be very carefully considered.
I know you stated that really clearly Barbarian, and as I say I agree but it's more of shame on the tourist leaning out of the car than shame on the Lion (to stretch a metaphor), for me.
Expecting violence to go away because of your feelings or bemaoning "this shouldn't happen" does nothing. Neither does assuming (or demanding) a group exhibits the same attitudes as you.
Hopefully the kid, (who punches then runs while his teammates get a hiding), has learnt a lesson about how unideal the world actually is
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This is disgusting. These guys are meant to be athletes yet, from watching movies and TV most of my life, I happen to know that even 5ft tall 45kg women can execute precise takedowns and accurate deadly punches.
This looks like a brawl of spazzy 5yr olds. Punches that miss, unco looking leaps and kicks.....
Get your shit together. Both teams. -
@rancid-schnitzel said in Boxingball:
@siam said in Boxingball:
Here's a take. Australia travel to one of the most violent countries on Earth, have the (spiteful, yet refereed) game in the bag and an Aussie player (before the refs decision regarding a crass foul by a Philipino) attacks an opponent with a forearm to the face.
Philipinos are understandably pissed off and a fight erupts. Not a 1950s movie fight where everyone shake hands and buys a beer, but a real fight in the real world. You want to fight at a home stadium in a lawless country then you better be prepare for some real violence. Otherwise, take the win, let the ref control the game and go home with the points.
Root cause of this debacle is the Aussie hero who decides that he'll attack a face and nothing else will happen.
As for the selfie, no relevance at all to the fight, but a good opportunity to spout moral high ground.
Poor Australia, acted like fluffybunnies but those Philipino are the disgrace for not taking shit, yeah right
Yep of course. Those primitive 3rd world monkeys couldnt help themselves hey? No accountability, violence is just in their nature?
That response was absolutely disgusting regardless of where it took place.
No, yes (it's in everyone's nature, you just got to find the right buttons to push) and yes
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Without having seen the rest of the game, to get some sort of an idea of the spirit this was played in , it does remind me of an example I used on another thread, which I think is Siam's main point.
Just because something wrong happened, it doesn't necessarily make the person who instigated it, in the right. I use the football example - should a Tottenham fan be able to sit in the middle of the hardcore Arsenal fans in his Spurs shirt and cheer them? Yes of course they should, but that just simply isn't realistic and in the best interest of everybody's safety.
Should the Aussie bloke be able to elbow the Filipino player without facing any repurcussion from the opposite team / players /f ans? Yes, of course he should but once again that just isn't realistic.
Most people will know that Filipino's are amongst the most downtrodden people on the planet. From corruption at the top (which explains the reasons for the rest), to the exploitation of their workers and the civil unrest generated by some pretty outdated laws. it's a pretty flagrant society where justice is more often than not, dealt with violence.
This reaction doesn't surprise me at all.
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@siam said in Boxingball:
@barbarian said in Boxingball:
@siam said in Boxingball:
Poor Australia, acted like fluffybunnies but those Philipino are the disgrace for not taking shit, yeah right
I don't disagree with a lot of your post - our bloke started the fight. It was a pretty nasty elbow and he deserved to be ejected, and maybe suspended.
I'm not sure if what happened after that point was proportional to the original act, though.
The Aussies aren't blameless, and a few of our players don't deserve much sympathy. But to excuse the actions of the Filipinos because 'they didn't start it' is pretty ridiculous.
You're correct there is no excuse for the retaliation of the Philipinos, and we agree on pretty much all the factors at play.
Please let me explain why I think the Philipino reaction pails in insignificance to the Aussie elbow to the head.
Watching that footage was not one bit surprising to anyone who's ever seen a melee. There was nothing particularly outrageous about this melee, I've been in some before and they are fucking scary and infectious. It was no different to many all in brawls we've all seen in all cultures from local sports to politicians to football hooligans and political protests.
It lasted about 2-5 minutes which is probably a bit short, but it was no more noteworthy than the 100,000 odd, melees on you tube and all the ones we've seen on telly or the net.
Yet the tut tutting and outrage that a group of emotionally charged players and spectators behaved in a typically human way in such circumstances is pretty naieve in my opinion. Granted I've spent most of my life with these people so I'm no stranger to the non triviality of violence.
The typical human behviour from this group was also deplorable and horribly excessive.
But this behaviour, from any group, is not going to go away by virtue of our outrage, condemnation or appeals to decency.
That's a sad state of affairs for sure, but no less truthful or realistic.
So I don't condem the crowd, fuck man that country is so corrupt and hard that it's like condemning the lion that bites the tourist on a range in Africa. You won't get any more than 10% of the Philippine poulation to agree that the crowd was wrong to retaliate in the manner they did.
Most will say "serves them right", probably for throwing the first punch.So that's why in the midst of proper shitty behaviour from both camps, I think the spotlight here should be shined on the first punch because that's what caused the shit and that is far easier to remedy than a tribes penchant for such violence.
That's the lesson here for me, in this nonsense situation. Not lecturing 103 million people about why dummy spitting is bad but reminding our kids that punching people in the face is an act that should be very carefully considered.
I know you stated that really clearly Barbarian, and as I say I agree but it's more of shame on the tourist leaning out of the car than shame on the Lion (to stretch a metaphor), for me.
Expecting violence to go away because of your feelings or bemaoning "this shouldn't happen" does nothing. Neither does assuming (or demanding) a group exhibits the same attitudes as you.
Hopefully the kid, (who punches then runs while his teammates get a hiding), has learnt a lesson about how unideal the world actually is
The soft bigotry of low expectations?
That last comment shows you didn't even watch the footage properly.
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@siam said in Boxingball:
Hopefully the kid, (who punches then runs while his teammates get a hiding), has learnt a lesson about how unideal the world actually is
Did you even watch the footage? Kickett didn’t ‘run’. He took several punches and an elbow to the head from players that charged off the bench. So with 5-6 now on him, he backs up.
Yes then there is chaos that naturally ensues in a melee situation. But he is there trying to help a team mate. He is then set upon by two more players so gets out of there. That is not uncommon in basketball ‘brawl’ situations. Happens plenty in NBA and other leagues.
There’s plenty of victim mentality going on social media from Filipino supporters. Talking about stickers and trash talking. So I doubt the rest of your post holds that much truth.
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@pukunui said in Boxingball:
He ends up at the other end of the court ffs. How is that not running away?
Edit: which by the way would be fine apart from the fact HE was the one who threw a cheap elbow to the head to kick it all off. Can dish out the thug but can't take it.
What would you have done in the same situation? Fought the entire team? When you have just been king hit and have a mob trying to kick the shit out of you, only an idiot is going to stand and fight.
And he didn't kick it all off. He was responding to his team mate getting taken out. You reckon after seeing that footage that the Filipinos would have remained calm if it had been the other way round?
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@rancid-schnitzel seen the video of that sneaky Filipino fuck tripping Kickert in the warm ups? And the coach sending them out to "hit someone, stick someone on their ass"
The poor little victimised Filipinos
"but, they took our stickers off!!"
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@mariner4life said in Boxingball:
@rancid-schnitzel seen the video of that sneaky Filipino fuck tripping Kickert in the warm ups? And the coach sending them out to "hit someone, stick someone on their ass"
The poor little victimised Filipinos
"but, they took our stickers off!!"
Yes and interesting the poor hair trigger can't help themselves Filipinos are focussing on his retaliation to that trip and completely ignoring the trip itself. But obviously he shouldn't have retaliated because the stadium was full of psychopaths who can't be held accountable for acting like animals. Maybe Australia should have deliberately lost to make it out alive. I mean, God forbid they upset anyone.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Boxingball:
@pukunui said in Boxingball:
He ends up at the other end of the court ffs. How is that not running away?
Edit: which by the way would be fine apart from the fact HE was the one who threw a cheap elbow to the head to kick it all off. Can dish out the thug but can't take it.
What would you have done in the same situation? Fought the entire team? When you have just been king hit and have a mob trying to kick the shit out of you, only an idiot is going to stand and fight.
And he didn't kick it all off. He was responding to his team mate getting taken out. You reckon after seeing that footage that the Filipinos would have remained calm if it had been the other way round?
And here we go round in circles again. What does what i would do in this situation have to do with anything?
Im pointing out that i think it is weak to give someone a cheap flying elbow to the head and then start running around like someone is trying to murder you. Happy to dish it out but scared shitless when there is retaliation.If you don't think his elbow kicked it off you are fucking blind.
Here's a tip, if you want it to be one on one don't go throwing cheap shots in a situation that doesn't involve you. This is how 100% of brawls i have seen start off, someone throwing a coward punch into an already heated situation.
The fact he seems to be escaping any criticism is pretty ridiculous really.
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@pukunui said in Boxingball:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Boxingball:
@pukunui said in Boxingball:
He ends up at the other end of the court ffs. How is that not running away?
Edit: which by the way would be fine apart from the fact HE was the one who threw a cheap elbow to the head to kick it all off. Can dish out the thug but can't take it.
What would you have done in the same situation? Fought the entire team? When you have just been king hit and have a mob trying to kick the shit out of you, only an idiot is going to stand and fight.
And he didn't kick it all off. He was responding to his team mate getting taken out. You reckon after seeing that footage that the Filipinos would have remained calm if it had been the other way round?
And here we go round in circles again. What does what i would do in this situation have to do with anything?
Im pointing out that i think it is weak to give someone a cheap flying elbow to the head and then start running around like someone is trying to murder you. Happy to dish it out but scared shitless when there is retaliation.If you don't think his elbow kicked it off you are fucking blind.
Here's a tip, if you want it to be one on one don't go throwing cheap shots in a situation that doesn't involve you. This is how 100% of brawls i have seen start off, someone throwing a coward punch into an already heated situation.
The fact he seems to be escaping any criticism is pretty ridiculous really.
If you're going to bag a guy out and lable him a coward then yes, it would be nice to know how you would have reacted.
The only person who is fucking blind is the guy watching from the safety of his living room who still thinks he was a coward. Not to mention completely ignoring what happened before Kickert retaliated.
What do you mean he's escaping criticism? He's been rightly criticised and hopefully will be suspended. But that doesn't justify the appalling actions of the Filipino players and their coach. It's also laughable to claim that elbow came from nowhere and wasn't in retaliation to a Filipino team who had been literally told to "hit someone".
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This is what the pussy should have done:
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@mariner4life said in Boxingball:
@antipodean said in Boxingball:
@nepia said in Boxingball:
@mariner4life said in Boxingball:
@antipodean said in Boxingball:
@mariner4life said in Boxingball:
the smiling on-court selfie from their team afterwards defies belief. You've just had your entire team ejected or fouled out, while down by 30, that massive fight happened, and you take a fucking team selfie? What the actual fuck?
Apart from cleaners, can anyone point to anything good coming out of the Philippines? They voted in Duterte ffs.
my wife's incredibly sexy friend is half Filipino?
Is the other half Czech?
Spanish?
@hooroo said in Boxingball:
@antipodean said in Boxingball:
@mariner4life said in Boxingball:
the smiling on-court selfie from their team afterwards defies belief. You've just had your entire team ejected or fouled out, while down by 30, that massive fight happened, and you take a fucking team selfie? What the actual fuck?
Apart from cleaners, can anyone point to anything good coming out of the Philippines? They voted in Duterte ffs.
Their hookers are awesome!!
Wait! Did I say that out loud?
I thought mariner made that point earlier, if somewhat more tactfully.
i absolutely did not
Aha! Fake news on the Silverfern?
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@booboo said in Boxingball:
Some quite passionate side taking here.
Both sides wrong. Some individuals more wrong than others.
Can someone explain the sticker thing and why this was so divisive? I no understand.
Could you please teach us all what is right?
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@majorrage said in Boxingball:
@booboo said in Boxingball:
Some quite passionate side taking here.
Both sides wrong. Some individuals more wrong than others.
Can someone explain the sticker thing and why this was so divisive? I no understand.
Could you please teach us all what is right?
Ahhh ok ...
Tripping the opposition players in the warm up before the game
Telling your players to hit someone
Smashing an elbow into an opposition player after a foul
Heaving flying kicks and knees at people
Smashing blokes while they're on the groundAll of the above qualify as "wrong" in my interpretation, and I would've expected most other people's. These weren't exclusive to one side.
Hope I never get to play you at basketball.
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