What is the best AB Midfield?
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@act-crusader Pretty sure Hansen said last year that they see Ioane as a centre. Centre is arguably a more important position, so why not move the wing?
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@nzzp said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@cgrant said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
My prediction for the 2019 RWC : Goodhue (12) - Ioane (13).
Wings as centres eh - that shouldn't cause any issues or send the Fern into a meltdown.
More chance of Ngatai returning to that level than Ioane coming in I'd say. He's too good out wide.
Ioane has played most of his footy as a centre. He was the best centre in the Blues, but I felt they put in Moala on reputation (as an All Black).
When Ioane played on the wing for the AB's, I thought they were just blooding him in.
I would still like to see him play centre for the Blues, and move out to the wing for the AB's to accommodate better midfield players, just like how we had Smith/Dagg playing wing even though they're fullbacks. However, if he is the form centre, why not reward his form and play him at centre? -
@mimic he might have been the Blues best, but I thought he struggled there. His read of the play seemed way off test level.
Even if they see him as a centre it could be a case of the reverse Kahui. They thought he was a centre but he played his best test footy as a winger.
I would be very reticent to move Ioane given what he’s provided as a winger. IMO he’s had two MOTM performances as a winger this year. Keep it going I’d say.
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@act-crusader He was 19 at the time.
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There are a lot of very good midfielders but most of them are best suited to the inside position (Laumape, Crotty, Ngatai, SBW) than centre. Goodhue has been outstanding for the Taniwhas as a second 5/8. So why not test Ioane with the "13" jersey if, of course, he plays there with the Blues.
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Starting point the five in the squad.
Of these one has experience and nous you want on the pitch when the chips are down: Crotty. So for me he's the first pick. But even though on paper he ought to be as at home at 13 as 12 it doesn't seem to have worked out that way, and he was the spanner in the works in Brisbane. Exceptional decision maker at 12 and also makes BB's game management significantly better at 10.
Haven't seen enough of Laumape and Goodhue to back them in our best combo. Both young and learning their trade. Goodhue seems to have the skills to develop into a world class 13, which is where we seem to have least depth.
SBW had a good game in Brisbane, makes lots of tackles, takes the ball up effectively, and still has some moments of magic. Seems not to be playing his natural game. And game management not a strength, both personally or for his 10. Wise men see him exclusively as a 12, but, as someone posted a week or so ago, I'd like to see how he went at 13 outside Crotty.
ALB has a good head on his shoulders and can play both 12 and 13 well. Good passing/offloading skills. Like Crotty, lacks the size to be a good crash baller at test level.
I think Crotty/ALB has been the best combo we've seen recently, but lacks the physicality one wants, and that did impede us once oppositions worked it out.
I'd like to see SBW/ALB get a decent run over a full game.
At the risk of arousing MN5, Ngatai, has the attraction of combining game management with physicality and can pass and kick well. Hope he gets through Maori tour without breaking.
In summary, the jury remains out!
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Don't discount the possibility of Ngatai/ALB getting a much better run at the Chiefs in 2018, similar to 2016 where they were the form combo.
For them, much will depend on how well the new 9/10 setup at the Chiefs goes. If they get smooth delivery they could well re-establish themselves and feature strongly in the AB selectors thoughts. (Edit: same goes for the Crotty/Goodhue opportunity)
At the moment the game plan at the ABs seems to insist on having a big 12. The defensive structure looks for that player to kill the opposition back play from going too wide and to capitalise on turnovers by having the rest of the defensive backline in 'half attack/defence' positioning.
I don't think it is working as it is killing our own set attack with the opposition getting better and better at slowing down the recycle once our 12 makes the advantage line. A bit more creativity wouldn't go amiss.
I do wish someone would teach SBW how to run angles though. His natural instinct is for full frontal aggression. Some Nonu like angles would get him past the first line where his offloading ability could come into play. -
@act-crusader Yup can't say I was a massive fan of Rieko at centre. He went far better once he was shifted out to the wing.
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@african-monkey said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@act-crusader Yup can't say I was a massive fan of Rieko at centre. He went far better once he was shifted out to the wing.
Rieko was disappointing for Blues, and, given AB record of playing at centre stars in form in other positions , I'd say best leave well enough alone!
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@pakman said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
Starting point the five in the squad.
Of these one has experience and nous you want on the pitch when the chips are down: Crotty. So for me he's the first pick. But even though on paper he ought to be as at home at 13 as 12 it doesn't seem to have worked out that way, and he was the spanner in the works in Brisbane. Exceptional decision maker at 12 and also makes BB's game management significantly better at 10.
Haven't seen enough of Laumape and Goodhue to back them in our best combo. Both young and learning their trade. Goodhue seems to have the skills to develop into a world class 13, which is where we seem to have least depth.
SBW had a good game in Brisbane, makes lots of tackles, takes the ball up effectively, and still has some moments of magic. Seems not to be playing his natural game. And game management not a strength, both personally or for his 10. Wise men see him exclusively as a 12, but, as someone posted a week or so ago, I'd like to see how he went at 13 outside Crotty.
ALB has a good head on his shoulders and can play both 12 and 13 well. Good passing/offloading skills. Like Crotty, lacks the size to be a good crash baller at test level.
I think Crotty/ALB has been the best combo we've seen recently, but lacks the physicality one wants, and that did impede us once oppositions worked it out.
I'd like to see SBW/ALB get a decent run over a full game.
At the risk of arousing MN5, Ngatai, has the attraction of combining game management with physicality and can pass and kick well. Hope he gets through Maori tour without breaking.
In summary, the jury remains out!
Aw christ, just stop the fapping!
Since when is ALB too small to hit it up? He did this pretty effectively this year.
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I'm torn between taking a similar approach we did to the right wing in 2015, where we didn't really have the satisfactory answers until Super Rugby threw up Nohalo and NMS in the RWC year - even though we had Dagg and Jane in our back pocket. Just wait and see - plenty of rugby to go and between Super Rugby and happenstance a decent centre combo will shake out eventually.
The other side of the coin is given there is so many variables - with most guys in the conversation playing both 12 and 13 (...or 14 or 15) I would almost be inclined to ink one spot in and try and fit the partner around him - which for me would be SBW at 12.
Crotty too injury prone and does not have any game breaking quality where you are willing to accept that risk.
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I think SBW is a far better bench option than a starter and moving him there would give us an ability to change the focus in that last 20-30 when his weapons should be far more effective against a tiring defence.
He's just not that much better (if at all) than the other starting options but has shown he can be a real asset injected late. He just doesn't have the full range of skills for the structured game but comes into his own big time when the game gets looser.
Unfortunately starting him and then using him as a carthorse means he's less effective in the 4th quarter than coming on fresh.
I do get he is a great bale out option at 2nd 5 and can't fault his work ethic but I feel they are trying to get him to replicate Nonu's game and he just doesn't have the same skills. TBF neither did Ma'a initially but SBW's age is against him there.
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@pakman as soon as someone dismisses Crotty as lacking physicality, it makes me start to think they don't really know what they're talking about. When they then throw in ALB in the lacking basket and promptly offer up Ngatai as the opposite, it confirms it.
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@bones said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@pakman as soon as someone dismisses Crotty as lacking physicality, it makes me start to think they don't really know what they're talking about. When they then throw in ALB in the lacking basket and promptly offer up Ngatai as the opposite, it confirms it.
Ngatai can do anything Bones. He's fucken AWESOME and he doesn't even need to play to prove this. Hes a SBW/Nonu/Crotty/Smith/ALB hybrid. Sometimes I wonder if you actually read the fern bro?
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@mn5 said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@bones said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@pakman as soon as someone dismisses Crotty as lacking physicality, it makes me start to think they don't really know what they're talking about. When they then throw in ALB in the lacking basket and promptly offer up Ngatai as the opposite, it confirms it.
Ngatai can do anything Bones. He's fucken AWESOME and he doesn't even need to play to prove this. Hes a SBW/Nonu/Crotty/Smith/ALB hybrid. Sometimes I wonder if you actually read the fern bro?
He's a bit overhyped, but to be fair to him he was carving it up in 2015 and 2016. SInce then the horror injuries have been terrible for him.
Remember, after Smith he was very much the 'heir apparent' to slot into the midfield. Seemed to have vision, defensive quality and a good distribution and kicking skillset along with some pace. Unfortunately it appears he is made of porcelain.
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Long term, I think Laumape looks like the second to play best off Barrett. He's the player I'd be really looking to develop - possibly even for 2019, but probably for 2023. Outside him, I think we have two good long term options in Barrett and Goodhue, plus over time I won't be surprised to see Ioane move there by 2023 (but not until after 2019 I hope).
I think that SBW is doing OK, but if I were dropping one midfielder, it would be him. He's not really adding much on attack (despite really upping his defensive safeness) with Barrett. Our midfield looked best with Crotty and ALB, and IMO we'd be more dangerous with SBW off the bench.
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@nzzp said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@mn5 said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@bones said in What is the best AB Midfield?:
@pakman as soon as someone dismisses Crotty as lacking physicality, it makes me start to think they don't really know what they're talking about. When they then throw in ALB in the lacking basket and promptly offer up Ngatai as the opposite, it confirms it.
Ngatai can do anything Bones. He's fucken AWESOME and he doesn't even need to play to prove this. Hes a SBW/Nonu/Crotty/Smith/ALB hybrid. Sometimes I wonder if you actually read the fern bro?
He's a bit overhyped, but to be fair to him he was carving it up in 2015 and 2016. SInce then the horror injuries have been terrible for him.
Remember, after Smith he was very much the 'heir apparent' to slot into the midfield. Seemed to have vision, defensive quality and a good distribution and kicking skillset along with some pace. Unfortunately it appears he is made of porcelain.
Are you saying he gets shit on a lot?
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based on this and comments in other threads, is ALOT of expectation heaped on Goodhues shoulders now!
