All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2
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@mooshld yeah I liked what Laumape bought to the table, although Will GReenwood who usually makes sense reckons the Lions exposed him, which is true to an extent, but I thought he acquitted himself in the match well, which TBF was the most unusual match to start your AB career off with.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11885188
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@Catogrande thanks, as I said in the other thread, pull up the video and stop it at the right spots. The video you linked shows very clearly the way he tenses up his right hand for a chop/hit action. If he was trying to grab as in making a tackle, he would have an open palm reaching around. Then he does a half movement as a sighter, then a full hit to the jaw. Then he moves backward away from the tackle area rapidly, since all his forward momentum went into Naholo's jaw, and since he at no time tried to lower his body weight to engage the tackle.
You say it is a gentle forearm to the jaw, I say it is a hard cold cock, on purpose. Look at the result.
I disagree with mooshid. None of SOB's actions look like he is trying to make a tackle. You need to freeze frame it to see his actions clearly. He has a history of hitting player's heads, so giving him the benefit of the doubt and only looking at it real speed from the wrong side is insufficient. We are Kiwis, we don't BS nor whinge. Tell it like it is.
I don't want to keep rehashing this, it's over, and he got off (miraculously). Time to move on and beat them on the field this weekend.
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@Wairau said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande thanks, as I said in the other thread, pull up the video and stop it at the right spots. The video you linked shows very clearly the way he tenses up his right hand for a chop/hit action. If he was trying to grab as in making a tackle, he would have an open palm reaching around. Then he does a half movement as a sighter, then a full hit to the jaw. Then he moves backward away from the tackle area rapidly, since all his forward momentum went into Naholo's jaw, and since he at no time tried to lower his body weight to engage the tackle.
You say it is a gentle forearm to the jaw, I say it is a hard cold cock, on purpose. Look at the result.
I disagree with mooshid. None of SOB's actions look like he is trying to make a tackle. You need to freeze frame it to see his actions clearly. He has a history of hitting player's heads, so giving him the benefit of the doubt and only looking at it real speed from the wrong side is insufficient. We are Kiwis, we don't BS nor whinge. Tell it like it is.
I don't want to keep rehashing this, it's over, and he got off (miraculously). Time to move on and beat them on the field this weekend.
I'd love to see the reasoning of the dismissal and the defence put forward. Not because I want to pick them apart but because I am astounded how that incident was deemed not a RC under the directives.
SBWs was deemed a RC presumably because the ref either decided there was intent or a complete lack of care. The judiciary decided reckless which upholds the RC. How on earth was SOBs not reckless?
I have said I think it was an accident, but I also see SBWs as one as well. It was an avoidable accident though and both players did not need to make the actions they did.
I guess we'll never know but it is certainly perplexing. Almost as perplexing as the ref team looking at it and seeing a hard forearm to the jaw and deciding it wasn't even worth an action. -
@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
McBride
I thought I had heard all the trivia about Willie John McBride until yesterday:
he played more games for the Lions (70) than for Ireland (63)!There were a lot of provincial games on those long tours in the 60s/70s!
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Faletau's try was top drawer.
Having seen a step-by-step review of it today, I think it was a far, far better try than the try in the first test by O'Brien.
The first Test try needed a bit of luck/opportunism - Read's charge was maybe worth a gamble because it might have made a fullback panic, but Williams stepped inside and there was a nice arrangement of players on both sides for the Lions to capitalise through the neat exchanges between Davies/Daly/Davies/O'Brien.
Four players contribute to the attack. The distance makes it unexpected/dramatic/spectacular - but overall it made no difference.However, the Faletau try was more like a Joe Schmidt-planned try. It starts with the scrum-half in the lineout at the front and O'Brien at 9, then Murray drops back to take the tap, O'Brien keeps the focus close-in from the AB-tail, but Murray skip-passes to Sexton who gives a short pass to Farrell.
Farrell and Davies tie in the AB midfield, Sexton loops and Daly comes in from the blindside-wing, just evading ALB and feeds Williams who puts Watson away on the right.
Watson is tackled but Murray rolls Dagg and O'Brien has the strength to resist the combined counter-ruck of Cane and Barrett.
Daly acts as 9 to get the ball out to Sexton and Itoje trucks it up, supported by George. Murray feeds Sexton who has inside options from Furlong and Lawes with Davies running a hard line from centre, but Sexton pulls it back deep to Farrell who has had time to size up the ABs improvised defence.
Farrell wisely skips Warburton to get the ball to Williams in midfield and passes to Faletau who is 5m in from touch. Faletau is not in the clear and has to use his power/experience to get through the Dagg tackle. I've seen several Lions backs not score from better chances this tour.
That's what I call a team try!That's all 7 backs involved and (depending on how you do the maths) the ball going through about 16 pairs of hands &/or significant contributions leading up to that try, going 40m up the pitch but 2 x 70m widths, so it is a total of about 180m of play.
Also it happened when it was 14v14, so was not simply down to numerical difference (although the effort of the AB-14 from minutes 25-60 might have been starting to catch up on them).
Above all - it made a difference: it got the Lions back in the game after 20 minutes of trying to throw away the series by giving away dumb penalty after dumb penalty.
So far, by far, that for me is the try of the tour (and several other tours!).
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@Megweya said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
McBride
I thought I had heard all the trivia about Willie John McBride until yesterday:
he played more games for the Lions (70) than for Ireland (63)!There were a lot of provincial games on those long tours in the 60s/70s!
Old style tours were magic
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May have missed if already posted, but excellent analysis by the42 of how Lions defence neutralised ABs at 21 all. http://www.the42.ie/analysis-lions-defence-all-blacks-test-two-3475729-Jul2017/
That said I think it shows, which the analysis attempts to gloss over, that Sinckler ought to have been penalised for clear offside fairly early in sequence. Kick would have been three yards in Lions half, but at very least would have given ABs field position. -
And an attack analysis, including the 'tricks' the Lions used to part the black sea for Murray: http://www.the42.ie/analysis-sexton-farrell-lions-all-blacks-2-3474564-Jul2017/ .
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@pakman said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
May have missed if already posted, but excellent analysis by the42 of how Lions defence neutralised ABs at 21 all. http://www.the42.ie/analysis-lions-defence-all-blacks-test-two-3475729-Jul2017/
That said I think it shows, which the analysis attempts to gloss over, that Sinckler ought to have been penalised for clear offside fairly early in sequence. Kick would have been three yards in Lions half, but at very least would have given ABs field position.I don't think that is a big issue, we often see that allowed if the defender retreats back which Sinkler did.
However, watching the other one I think it's more preposterous that Farrell was allowed to get away with holding TJ, and anyone who claims that didn't have an effect on TJs decision making is deluded.
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Also I think the whole 'the42' best balanced rugby journalism out there reputation took a hit with that second one. They're basically applauding the Lions for blocking defenders when this whole tour has had scuttlebutt about blocking defenders aimed at the ABs.
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Nz had 61% possession and 58% territory this match.
With 7 man pack for 50 odd minutes.
Also the NZ lineout was statistically the better in this match, after a shaky first test. Tbf, I expect the nz lineout to be good but it was minus their 4th jumping option for the 50 odd minutes. 9 out of 10 (90%) on own through, so the missed one was the not straight when Taylor got flustered waiting for Garces to move Itoje out of the middle.
Lions were 8 out of 10.Nz scrum was 100%.
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Checking in late.....
Warburton is an absolute class act. He knew his team had played 14 men for 50 min and only just won. He is easily one of my favourite personalties
Lions live offside.
Can we get a ref that actually likes the game of rugby?
Its a can of worms repeatedly opened but Vunipola gets to stay on the field why exactly?
I hate NZ media, specifically TVNZ for drudging up a 9yo video of a SBW shoulder charge right after he switched codes. Its inciting public anger. Ditto our tall poppy syndrome on social media. He fucked up, let it go. The guy does a hell of a lot of good away from the field so put the pitch forks away FFS!.......and he had a direct hand in two WCs! IMO he lost his ability to wrap as Naholo came in. It was either use the arm and jam it, possible break it or wrap the arm around Naholo as he should have done. We all now he took another option and it was silly.
Ioane may be fast but his work rate at this stage of his test career is pants.
Dagg has been outstanding over 2 games but his last man defense is and has always been arse.
For me the AB villain of the game was Aaron Cruden. When we had a platform set, rumble up the middle taking 5m at a time from 40m out, he chose to kick across field for the Hail Mary. I appreciate everything he has done for NZ rugby, his fight back from cancer and he's a tiny man playing a giants game which I always like to see. However he went for the legacy play. He wanted the glory and a lasting impression of his time in the AB jersey and it was the wrong play. That was probably the point where I lost my shit.
Lastly "A win for the ages" they proclaim - ok you won against 14 men, should have been 14 vs 14 if Vunipola gets the same treatment SBW does, possibly 14 vs 13 with O'Briens swinging arm(based on the current IRB rulings....) then the consistently offside Maro Itoje probably should have had a seat for 10 as well. In fairness so does Cody Taylor for the late hit of Farrell. But come on "A win for the ages" really???
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The manner in which the win was achieved can be debated, but a first Test win in NZ for 24 years - after a 3-0 drubbing the last time they met - contextually certainly merits the the title.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
And an attack analysis, including the 'tricks' the Lions used to part the black sea for Murray: http://www.the42.ie/analysis-sexton-farrell-lions-all-blacks-2-3474564-Jul2017/ .
looking at the video of the first try if ALB had made his tackle instead of slipping off Daly it the movement would have been shut down. I don't think ALB committed to early as they say in the analysis he just did a shit tackle.
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@raznomore said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Checking in late.....
Warburton is an absolute class act. He knew his team had played 14 men for 50 min and only just won. He is easily one of my favourite personalties
Yeap he came across really well in the interview and was well aware that they had only just beaten a 14 man All Black team. I also liked how Read didn't use being a player down as an excuse.
Then you have Gatland who reckons they haven't been stretched by the All Blacks. Maybe I'm just arrogant but if the All Blacks had only just beaten a 14 man Lions, Aussie or SA team by three points in the last 10 minutes I'd want an inquiry
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@Gary the funny thing though was the Lions had their best period during the 14 v 14 time.
