B&I Lions 2017
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Ok I think its a strong squad but it seems to me that I'm hearing the same old stuff that was said prior to 2005 from the Lions/UK media. No stone unturned, this is the strongest and biggest squad, power game, the strength and depth is fantastic and training is going to be so competitive to get in the test side that its just going to be brutal. I see no real creative spark in this squad or the coaching team
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@MN5 said in B&I Lions 2017:
I wouldn't mind if someone could give me a logical answer as to why one country ranked 5th provides just two players and another ranked 8th provides twelve.
Now i know how Highlanders fans felt in 2015 when none of their forwards became ABs
Scotland may well have beaten Wales, but they were destroyed by England who were then dispatched the following match by Ireland.
When it came to the crunch, Scotland folded like a deckchair.
Not what's needed on a NZ tour -
How competitive are the wam-up games likely to be? Will the sides go all out to win, or will coaches and players save themselves for Super Rugby?
I assume the All Blacks squad will be missing from the wam-up games, with the possible exception of the Maori?
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@Disgusted-of-TW said in B&I Lions 2017:
You could probably make a case for Laidlaw as 3rd SH and a possible midweek captain, but he does not present a running threat, unlike the three guys chosen.
If fit, I would have taken him. Goalkicking too.
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@SimonAdd_2 the first two super rugby opposition, the Blues and Crusaders, will be full strength including All Blacks.
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@Stargazer said in B&I Lions 2017:
Planet Rugby's Lions 2017: Left at home XV
The reasons for their selections are in the article:
15 Mike Brown (Harlequins/England)
14 Simon Zebo (Munster/Ireland)
13 Garry Ringrose (Leinster/Ireland)
12 Scott Williams (Scarlets/Wales)
11 Sean Maitland (Saracens/Scotland)
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
9 Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester/Scotland)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster/Ireland)
7 Hamish Watson (Edinburgh/Scotland)
6 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins/England)
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps/England)
3 Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton/England)
1 Cian Healy (Leinster/Ireland)Would get pumped by the mid-week team.
Let alone the Test team.
Let alone the ABs
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@KiwiMurph said in B&I Lions 2017:
@SimonAdd_2 the first two super rugby opposition, the Blues and Crusaders, will be full strength including All Blacks.
Seriously? Very tasty. Assume one of them is a midweek game too? Potential upset right off the bat.
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Goddam I hope we smash the Lions, mainly just to see Gatland crack the biggest shits about this thing and that. That pumped up little giblet.
Who do people see as their ideal test XV in the side ?
From where I sit, for the BIL to have any chance, they'll need:- their best XV to make it to the first test in one piece
- that the best XV in Gatlands head, actually are the best XV, and are allowed to settle and develop combinations. I can't see any room for subterfuge in selections
How in the hell both the BIL and AB's make it to the first test with all their starters is beyond me. I'm sure we'll lose a couple of starters from the Blues or Crusaders - I'd be really dubious about Kieran Read playing that game...
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What would be interesting would be a Lions selection to play a non Gatland style.
Trade some of the size for skills. A team that would take on the ABs at their own game.
Quite a few players would remain and fit in OK but a few others could come into contention like Dunbar and Ringrose, Brown and VdF
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@SimonAdd_2 Yep Blues game 2 on the tour is a Wednesday. Crusaders game 3 on the tour is the Saturday (week before the Maori game). Though the Blues wont have a lot of turnaround time as they play the Reds in Samoa the Friday prior.
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@westcoastie said in B&I Lions 2017:
Goddam I hope we smash the Lions, mainly just to see Gatland crack the biggest shits about this thing and that. That pumped up little giblet.
Who do people see as their ideal test XV in the side ?
From where I sit, for the BIL to have any chance, they'll need:- their best XV to make it to the first test in one piece
- that the best XV in Gatlands head, actually are the best XV, and are allowed to settle and develop combinations. I can't see any room for subterfuge in selections
How in the hell both the BIL and AB's make it to the first test with all their starters is beyond me. I'm sure we'll lose a couple of starters from the Blues or Crusaders - I'd be really dubious about Kieran Read playing that game...
Hopefully we'll see Gatland et al working on aerobic fitness, dynamism and support play in the training leading up to the Tests.
We have the cattle.
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@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
@westcoastie said in B&I Lions 2017:
Goddam I hope we smash the Lions, mainly just to see Gatland crack the biggest shits about this thing and that. That pumped up little giblet.
Who do people see as their ideal test XV in the side ?
From where I sit, for the BIL to have any chance, they'll need:- their best XV to make it to the first test in one piece
- that the best XV in Gatlands head, actually are the best XV, and are allowed to settle and develop combinations. I can't see any room for subterfuge in selections
How in the hell both the BIL and AB's make it to the first test with all their starters is beyond me. I'm sure we'll lose a couple of starters from the Blues or Crusaders - I'd be really dubious about Kieran Read playing that game...
Hopefully we'll see Gatland et al working on aerobic fitness, dynamism and support play in the training leading up to the Tests.
We have the cattle.
I read something from their trainers the other day that they think they need to lift everyone by 10% as AB games by stats have the ball in play 10% more.
With NH refs in charge though I'm sure they will be practising how to get scrum resets without conceding penalties and how to walk slowly to lineouts while appearing to walk fast. -
I found this amusing.
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Nice video clip of Thomas Waldrom reacting to Jack Nowell's selection, by managing to keep eating through the uproar. Omnomnomnom.
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@Disgusted-of-TW said in B&I Lions 2017:
Nice video clip of Thomas Waldrom reacting to Jack Nowell's selection, by managing to keep eating through the uproar. Omnomnomnom.
I thought that was very touching and appropriate, he turned his head from the plate to see who Jack Nowell was (oh yeah, the back with funny haircut, I scored more tries than him) and then politely clapped his knife and fork together, took a quick glance up to see if the camera was still on him, and then resumes eating.
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@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Disgusted-of-TW said in B&I Lions 2017:
Nice video clip of Thomas Waldrom reacting to Jack Nowell's selection, by managing to keep eating through the uproar. Omnomnomnom.
I thought that was very touching and appropriate, he turned his head from the plate to see who Jack Nowell was (oh yeah, the back with funny haircut, I scored more tries than him) and then politely clapped his knife and fork together, took a quick glance up to see if the camera was still on him, and then resumes eating.
To be fair Thomas the Tank has scored more tries than any winger this season barring Wade. Oh and more than any in the premiership last season bar none.
All for a total yardage of about 17 though.
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If you are Gats how early do you give the squad an idea about what the draft test 23 looks like?
It's seemed in past tours that they plant a flag in the sand fairly late - at least after landing on tour somewhere between the first dirttracker game (by virtue of elimination) and the first weekend hit out. I get the idea of giving everyone the hope of making the test team, but I'd be telling the players where they stand now.
Two reasons - let the media bleating and bullshit happen now and to give a squad that is starting it's structure from scratch at least a bit of a headstart.
I just can't imagine the difficulty of operating the first half of the campaign under the pretense of every position being up for grabs. If you don't have a pretty clear test 23 in mind now - allowing for seeing how it all fits together and making adjustments accordingly, then this tour is going to be very grim indeed.
The begging for 3 extra tourists and selection of many multi-position guys in the backs makes me think Gats is hedging his bets as late as possible.
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Fixtures below here
Date Home team
3 June New Zealand Barbarians
7 June Blues
10 June Crusaders
13 June Highlanders
17 June Māori All Blacks
20 June Chiefs
24 June New Zealand
27 June Hurricanes
1 July New Zealand
8 July New ZealandI am wondering how Gats will build his test team through the opening fixtures prior to the first test?
Looking at the schedule here I am hoping he will play his shadow first test team v the Highlanders in Dunedin, 11 days before the first test.
Playing the shadow test team v the Maori one week before the first test seems a bit tough on the players, with the test matches then being one week apart after the first test kicks off.
Disclaimer - am going to the Highlanders match so would like to see the Lions first test team on the park for that game.
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@rotated I think the reason they haven't done that is a hangover from the 2001 tour, where Henry clearly had his mind made up about the Test team before the squad even met. That drove a rift between the squad with many of the midweek guys feeling they were just walking tackle bags and no matter how well they played they stood no chance of making the weekend team. Healey and Dawson were very vocal about it, and it led to an unhappy touring party.
I remember reading a couple of interviews contrasting that with the other extreme: SCW's chopping and changing in 2005 where no-one knew where they stood and no combinations where given time to form.
It's a tricky line to tread and one of the reasons both the 1997 and 2009 tours are remembered so fondly by the players is how well McGeechen trod it and how happy the touring parties were as a result.
My impression was that the 2013 squad wasn't quite so harmonious, although the Test series victory largely paper over that fact.
The class moment Jack Nowell discovered he'd been named in the Lions squad
