England V All Blacks
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@Crucial said in England V All Blacks:
We have always maintained that if England want us to play at Twickers outside of the WR programme it has to be on a 50/50 revenue share.
No need to back down from that.We could back down if it gets us 5 games, 1 a year every year, with a rev share. Thats the bigger picture
1 game at 50/50 is good. But 5 tests at 70/30 means we can keep Retallick, Barrett & Coles for 5 years
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@gollum said in England V All Blacks:
@Crucial said in England V All Blacks:
We have always maintained that if England want us to play at Twickers outside of the WR programme it has to be on a 50/50 revenue share.
No need to back down from that.We could back down if it gets us 5 games, 1 a year every year, with a rev share. Thats the bigger picture
1 game at 50/50 is good. But 5 tests at 70/30 means we can keep Retallick, Barrett & Coles for 5 years
I see this from a NZ POV but I'd doubt the RFU would go out on a limb like that. It would be to much of a precedent. It would surprise me if the Autumn 2017 game gets the nod.
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@Catogrande said in England V All Blacks:
I see this from a NZ POV but I'd doubt the RFU would go out on a limb like that. It would be to much of a precedent. It would surprise me if the Autumn 2017 game gets the nod.
From an RFU point of view its 5 sold out games, with "name your price" TV over a period where England will be strong & building to a WC, then coming off a WC where its a rerun of the final.
Whats not to like?
The unscheduled one off's are far harder as the clubs have a hissy fit & the ABs do their "3m or piss off" thing
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@gollum said in England V All Blacks:
@Catogrande said in England V All Blacks:
I see this from a NZ POV but I'd doubt the RFU would go out on a limb like that. It would be to much of a precedent. It would surprise me if the Autumn 2017 game gets the nod.
From an RFU point of view its 5 sold out games, with "name your price" TV over a period where England will be strong & building to a WC, then coming off a WC where its a rerun of the final.
Whats not to like?
The unscheduled one off's are far harder as the clubs have a hissy fit & the ABs do their "3m or piss off" thing
What's not to like is having all the other countries banging on the door for a similar deal. This is especially so as we sell out pretty much every England game (caveat that for some the ticket prices are lower). So for the RFU whilst an increase in revenue would be nice it is likely not worth the potential problems.
Also as @Crucial says. There is already a game next year. Then it is RWC and after that there is always the option of Eng v NZ games being organised within the window.
This smacks to me of the RFU getting a bit arrogant because England are No2 and they feel that they might be able to knock over NZ at Twickenham and that's all.
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I agree from an RFU point of view they just want a 1 off to exploit the current strength, thats all this is about.
But the NZRFU will be trying to leverage a more long term deal, and that not neccesarily terrible from an RFU point of view
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@Catogrande said in England V All Blacks:
@gollum said in England V All Blacks:
@Catogrande said in England V All Blacks:
I see this from a NZ POV but I'd doubt the RFU would go out on a limb like that. It would be to much of a precedent. It would surprise me if the Autumn 2017 game gets the nod.
From an RFU point of view its 5 sold out games, with "name your price" TV over a period where England will be strong & building to a WC, then coming off a WC where its a rerun of the final.
Whats not to like?
The unscheduled one off's are far harder as the clubs have a hissy fit & the ABs do their "3m or piss off" thing
What's not to like is having all the other countries banging on the door for a similar deal. This is especially so as we sell out pretty much every England game (caveat that for some the ticket prices are lower). So for the RFU whilst an increase in revenue would be nice it is likely not worth the potential problems.
Except we are only talking about games outside of the WR window. So it is unlikely that, for example, England would arrange a game with Samoa and have Samoa demand 50/50
There are always set costs to hosting a game and it is crazy to expect in a normal arrangement for one party to wear the cost and the other not, so a 50/50 revenue share is unrealistic. A profit share is more likely and even then the RFU would have a baseline expected return for their outlay so lower ticket prices would mean a lower %
With NZ though the tickets would sell instantly, the prices would be high and the profit also high.
Anyway Ian Ritchie needs to eat a fair bit of humble pie if this game is to happen. -
@Crucial said in England V All Blacks:
There are always set costs to hosting a game and it is crazy to expect in a normal arrangement for one party to wear the cost and the other not, so a 50/50 revenue share is unrealistic. A profit share is more likely and even then the RFU would have a baseline expected return for their outlay so lower ticket prices would mean a lower %With NZ though the tickets would sell instantly, the prices would be high and the profit also high.
A 50/50 profit share would only work if both parties are interested in maximising profit. England are not.
If we are going to maximise profit here the game would be hosted at Wembley that has a greater overall capacity but more specifically greater suite capacity. RFU obviously want this at Twickers for many non profit generating reasons and that's totally understandable.
If RFU is waiving the stadium rental fee then the difference between profit and revenue becomes less of an issue providing they aren't playing silly buggers on the TV rights or tickets (i.e. rolling the autumn internationals into a 4 game package and then counting the NZ fixture as 1/4 of the value) etc
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@rotated said in England V All Blacks:
@Crucial said in England V All Blacks:
There are always set costs to hosting a game and it is crazy to expect in a normal arrangement for one party to wear the cost and the other not, so a 50/50 revenue share is unrealistic. A profit share is more likely and even then the RFU would have a baseline expected return for their outlay so lower ticket prices would mean a lower %With NZ though the tickets would sell instantly, the prices would be high and the profit also high.
A 50/50 profit share would only work if both parties are interested in maximising profit. England are not....
And that is it in a nutshell.
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Apparently the Baabaas game NZR were trying to book Twickenham for was going to be the first game of the tour not the last. This is the slot England now want.
One thing that occurred to me when I read that during the last cycle between the RWCs NZ and England played 6 times was that this may well have contributed to the mess Lancaser found himself in and vice-versa for Eddie Jones this cycle.
Basically England have been able to get a building programme and change going without second guessing how well the plan is working when they don't match the ABs. They have been able to gain confidence rather than cockiness that gets regularly shot down.
If this game goes ahead it would be a huge bonus for Eddie's plans whatever the outcome. Even if the ABs win it would likely be close and not only would we have to show our hand a little but it would provide tangible markers to England for the extra improvement needed. They could carry on with the current mantra which is 'we aren't the best yet but are striving to get there'.
Ah fuck. Bring it on.
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So if it doesn't go ahead the ABs are either too greedy or scared...win/win for England!
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@Catogrande said in England V All Blacks:
@gollum said in England V All Blacks:
@Catogrande said in England V All Blacks:
I see this from a NZ POV but I'd doubt the RFU would go out on a limb like that. It would be to much of a precedent. It would surprise me if the Autumn 2017 game gets the nod.
From an RFU point of view its 5 sold out games, with "name your price" TV over a period where England will be strong & building to a WC, then coming off a WC where its a rerun of the final.
Whats not to like?
The unscheduled one off's are far harder as the clubs have a hissy fit & the ABs do their "3m or piss off" thing
What's not to like is having all the other countries banging on the door for a similar deal. This is especially so as we sell out pretty much every England game (caveat that for some the ticket prices are lower). So for the RFU whilst an increase in revenue would be nice it is likely not worth the potential problems.
And theres the crux of it.
NZ is fighting a battle that will benefit rugby worldwide but will disadvantage some, most particularly England.
Why should the host nation take ALL the money when the visitors are generating half of it?
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Although shag will never admit it ,
Wouldn't surprise if privately he doesn't want it , not this year ,
given the importance the game will take on , and the already heavy schedule on his players , he may just see it as too much ,
Do a Floyd mayweather , yeah ok we will do it ,but show us the money first
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@kiwiinmelb said in England V All Blacks:
Although shag will never admit it ,
Wouldn't surprise if privately he doesn't want it , not this year ,
given the importance the game will take on , and the already heavy schedule on his players , he may just see it as too much ,
Do a Floyd mayweather , yeah ok we will do it ,but show us the money first
Hansen on Devlin this week seemed into it providing England poined up the cash even going so far as to say they should give half the stadium to make it happen. In the past he has been saying that it's 2018s business.
I don't know how we make it to November with this game having the same importance as it seems to now. Too many ways for the bloom to come off the rose - England could lose in 4 days, we could bottle TRC and the Lions tour has a funny way of tainting everyone on the losing side - we won't be anywhere near the same draw if the Lions tip us over and England will likely cop some blowback if the Lions get pumped.
If England do the slam, we dominate TRC and the the Lions is a 2001 style series (series victory for NZ, moral victory for Lions by outperforming expectations and almost winning) then maybe, just maybe this fixture is as juicy as it seems.
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@booboo said in England V All Blacks:
@Catogrande said in England V All Blacks:
@gollum said in England V All Blacks:
@Catogrande said in England V All Blacks:
I see this from a NZ POV but I'd doubt the RFU would go out on a limb like that. It would be to much of a precedent. It would surprise me if the Autumn 2017 game gets the nod.
From an RFU point of view its 5 sold out games, with "name your price" TV over a period where England will be strong & building to a WC, then coming off a WC where its a rerun of the final.
Whats not to like?
The unscheduled one off's are far harder as the clubs have a hissy fit & the ABs do their "3m or piss off" thing
What's not to like is having all the other countries banging on the door for a similar deal. This is especially so as we sell out pretty much every England game (caveat that for some the ticket prices are lower). So for the RFU whilst an increase in revenue would be nice it is likely not worth the potential problems.
And theres the crux of it.
NZ is fighting a battle that will benefit rugby worldwide but will disadvantage some, most particularly England.
Why should the host nation take ALL the money when the visitors are generating half of it?
Well the argument goes that the deal is reciprocal.
Here's a question for you, not trolling at all and I don't know the answer, but what is the financial deal with the Lions tour?
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Ah well, it might not go ahead for entirely different reasons:
The Rugby Football Union’s plan for England to host New Zealand at Twickenham on November 4 could be scuppered by opposition from several Aviva Premiership clubs. As the match falls outside the designated international window, the RFU would need Premiership Rugby’s permission to release its England players under World Rugby Regulation 9. Tony Rowe, the Exeter Chiefs chairman, told The Daily Telegraph that he would be strongly against the proposal of cramming an extra Test into an already packed calendar.It is understood that opinion is shared by many of his counterparts at other Premiership clubs.
Proposed England vs New Zealand clash in November could be scuppered by Premiership clubs
The Rugby Football Union’s plan for England to host New Zealand at Twickenham on November 4 could be scuppered by opposition from several Aviva Premiership clubs.
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@Catogrande the deal is, we make heaps of money, the guys in Red lose. A lot. And get beat up a bit. It's a sweet deal.
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@mariner4life said in England V All Blacks:
@Catogrande the deal is, we make heaps of money, the guys in Red lose. A lot. And get beat up a bit. It's a sweet deal.
We also provide the one free near death experience to a player of your choosing.
