Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz
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In NZ permanent residency affords same rights: welfare, voting but not passport as you cant obtain a NZ passport on residency (well I do not believe so)
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@taniwharugby
Cool, good info thanks -
Well, I think it's a bit ridiculous, because one of the things which I love about NZ is that when you act locally, people pass over ridiculous ID rules. For example, when I'm home and go to the bank, I can walk in without my wallet and get my Credit card limit extended, new card, whatever - because I've known most of the (senior) bank staff (and always at least one teller) since I was a kid.
It just doesn't work that way here in TK, where I need all my cards to get anything done, even at the hospital where I spent a month after getting sick and everyone greets me by name. Because, no documents, can't follow the 'correct' procedures, no service. For a great example of how ridiculous that is, for about 3 years when I went to Vodafone, I had to spell my name incorrectly because the person who had input it from my form had spelled it wrong. And, they wouldn't change it, even when I showed them my resident card. Seriously, I had a conversation where I was told 'That's your name at Vodafone'.
I'm cool about needing my documents in NZ when I go somewhere new, and I'm cool about letting receptionists use their judgment about when they need to check whether ppl are NZers or residents or not, mainly because I think that life is a little bit nicer when people in service industries are allowed to have some autonomy about procedures. I'll bet that if this woman had dealt with the situation better (and the receptionist too) that story could have ended with the receptionist saying "Sorry about that, so let me put your Driver license in here too so that next time you come back, even if I'm not here, you'll be fine without your passport, dear" where if that lady came back the receptionist would know her and she'd get local treatment.
These sort of articles appear to want all interactions to be digital and 'correct' when humans are analog and use judgment.
- Disclaimer: The only situation I think this lady is getting screwed is if she has been to the same desk, same person, it's a small clinic (I didn't bother reading the article) and every time she still gets the run-around. That's the sort of situation where I think we should be worried, but if it's a big enough hospital and you're clearly not locally born and not well know, be prepared to identify yourself and your status. Seems pretty fair to me, which is different to, but much better than equality.
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@gt12 under privacy laws in NZ, they need to be certain they are talking to who they think they are.
Even if I know the persons number and voice when they ring me, I am' supposed' to privacy check them if I am going to be discussing thier stuff or making changes.
Last time I got my credit card increased, with the same bank I had been with since I was a teenager and the girl who did it had been at the bank almost since I had been there; I still had to go through all the same checks and filling in of forms I would when I do it with a bank I am new to.
I assume the person who signed yours off is actually taking a risk in doing so, because if they got checked or audited, they are breaching a whole bunch of 'red tape'
Not saying your experience is a bad thing, but we still have checks and balances
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@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@gt12 under privacy laws in NZ, they need to be certain they are talking to who they think they are.
Even if I know the persons number and voice when they ring me, I am' supposed' to privacy check them if I am going to be discussing thier stuff or making changes.
Last time I got my credit card increased, with the same bank I had been with since I was a teenager and the girl who did it had been at the bank almost since I had been there; I still had to go through all the same checks and filling in of forms I would when I do it with a bank I am new to.
I assume the person who signed yours off is actually taking a risk in doing so, because if they got checked or audited, they are breaching a whole bunch of 'red tape'
Not saying your experience is a bad thing, but we still have checks and balances
Yep, exactly my point. I totally understand why those kind of checks are needed and I don't mind the laws either, but I equally think it's mad that people are no longer allowed to use judgment appropriately. If I'm your client, I call from my registered number, and we've talked to each other 100 times and you are confident that I'm who I say I am, why aren't you to be trusted to use your judgment? I'm possibly in the minority here, but I'm happy to have occasional problems and mistakes made, if the overall quality of interactions and life is improved via reasonable systems.
As I'm in education, it would be nice if we could show students real life situations where they'll be called upon to use judgment, but such situations seem to be disappearing - at what cost? No mistakes but shitty interactions with people everywhere? They'll probably all be robots soon anyway, which seems to be what the systems are like anyway.
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@gt12 said in I'll bet that if this woman had dealt with the situation better (and the receptionist too) that story could have ended with the receptionist saying "Sorry about that, so let me put your Driver license in here too so that next time you come back, even if I'm not here, you'll be fine without your passport, dear" where if that lady came back the receptionist would know her and she'd get local treatment.
I'm all for this and I suspect from the managers quotes his receptionist wasn't too eager to facilitate this. Also the NZ citizen didn't help things going to the media, but that's after the fact.
Learnt a bit from this topic not least of all been surprised that some people think it's totally acceptable that 2 NZ citizens must and should show different identification for the same service because a receptionist can decide a legal requirement on the whim.
Those people that see this as ok display a level of logic and intelligence that in my opinion suggest a dearth of introspection and a glut of self righteousness!
You are more of a New Zealander if you were born here I guess
Birthplace lotto winners
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@gt12 oh I agree, and I rarely use any of the required forms to confirm the clients identity, but I know its them, but I also know I am 'supposed' to use them, so on ones I am a little unsure of there are questions you can ask to confirm without sounding like you are doing privacy checks
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@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@MN5 said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Kirwan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Perhaps even delve deeper into the DHB register database as to how a receptionist can't find a surname in the search function.
The head of the clinic surmised it could have been a spelling discrepancy.
No mention of the two parties engaging in a simple discussion of "let me try to find you in the system, how do you spell..." Then a DL would have been sufficient right?
Interesting that a passport will unlock the database info but not a DL
I've not turned up on their system before, but it's not even about that. Some people have to show proof to avoid abuse of the system.
That's a responsible system.
She looks Thai, sounds Thai, completely reasonable to ask for a passport when she didn't turn up in the search. Not remotely racist and she should have just turned up with the appropriate documentation.
Same rules are applied to everyone.
Some people have to show proof to avoid abuse of the system.
That's a responsible system.
Kirwan under a little scrutiny, your statement that some people have show proof is not a responsible system as it doesn't define who and what characterises "some"
Caucasians with an accent?
Asians born in NZ?
Jeetan Patel?
Lydia Ko?
Pansy Wong?
You?
Me?A responsible system aimed at reducing ALL health services fraud would require ALL patients to provide proof of nz citizenship, no?
A system that relies on receptionists deciding who comes back tomorrow with their passport is not a responsible system, I posit.
How about people just taking a dose of 'toughen the fuck up'. When I was in London I had to carry my passport lots of places because I had an accent and needed to prove I was a citizen. Got an accent that is not the same as a native of the country, suck it up and carry your passport to places likely to be reserved for citizens.. like doctors that are not your own.
You jumped into this thread @Siam based on a completely and utterly ignorant knowledge of identification for residences and citizens and now you are just faffing about looking for a victim, there is no victim here except maybe the receptionist who did her job and has been criticised by the easily offended ' and know fuck all's'Yes some people have to show ID to stop abuse to the system.. so fucking what??? Part of being an immigrant. Lots of us here have had to deal with it, and havent bleated and bitched about it. It was inconvenient for me in the UK, but did I want to inconvenience every other single UK citizen because of it? No.
Great post. To touch on it further its pretty likely that 'John from Fielding' is a citizen based on his appearance and accent eg rolling into the office in gumboots, stubbies, stinking of cow shit with a crate of tui in the back of the ute. Is that 'reverse racial profiling?'
Again, I could live in Beijing most of my life but given I'm a Caucasian there's a pretty high chance I'll be asked for proof of residency if I'm after subsidised health care. The last thing I'd do is kick up a stibk about it.
But this is about different operating procedures for people with the same status - NZ citizens.
We're judging 2 NZ citizens based on their appearance, that's rather spurious and counter to the advanced society that NZ is, isn't it?
Not at all. It's people making assumptions based on appearances which, especially in a place like Palmy, will be correct 999 times out of 1000.
The receptionist at the medical place did this. I'll bet everyone on this thread ( except you ) would do exactly the same.
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Not really an alternative type story, more the content which highlights the sheer stupidity of some of those ticketing a car.
I used to have to deal with vehicles that had been stolen, and ended up sitting on the side of a road for weeks on end, and accumulated tickets while sitting there, not to mention additional fines for expired WOF or Reg.
Surely if it still has the ticket a couple of days after the first one, should alert you to the fact that something isn't quite right, and then check the LTSA database where it is likely going to show as stolen, but no, these guys either don't have access to the right tools to find these out or they are on some kind of quota for giving out tickets.
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@taniwharugby I worked in Sydney with these two Irish guys who drove around in a piece of shit Datsun that was given to them by some Irish guys when their work permit ran out and they'd been given it by some other Irish guys in the same situation . It broke down in a mall car park and being Irish backpackers it took them the best part of a week to get some tools together to go and fix it. When they went to leave the carpark they saw how much they owed in parking and made up some bullshit about not having enough money on them but if the guy at the gate let them park up they would go to the bank and get the cash.
They obviously never came back and acquired another car the same way a couple of weeks later. -
Just when we thought it was all over and the butcher could go back to his normal routine of being a thoroughly decent bloke the dame outdoes her efforts last week by reaching bold new heights of fuckwittedness.
Forget Willie Apiata, forget any of your Granddads efforts in the war….THIS is bravery right here folks.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/88237905/dame-susan-devoy-lara-bridger-a-brave-young-woman
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@MN5 brilliant, just brilliant...this bit was the best, gotta get the local Iwi involved and some Human Rights Commission to mediate.
"... that thing he did was offensive to Lara and it needs to be fixed up. I am confident he will do this and it's great to hear the local iwi are able to help mediate as are our own commission mediators. It is pretty clear he had no idea how offensive his words were but he will definitely know this now."
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@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@MN5 brilliant, just brilliant...this bit was the best, gotta get the local Iwi involved and some Human Rights Commission to mediate.
"... that thing he did was offensive to Lara and it needs to be fixed up. I am confident he will do this and it's great to hear the local iwi are able to help mediate as are our own commission mediators. It is pretty clear he had no idea how offensive his words were but he will definitely know this now."
FUCK
RIGHT
OFF
……with that shit Susan.... Jesus fucken Christ…….
I'm unsure exactly what he needs to fix up ?
I don't know the Butcher from a bar of soap but judging from his public persona I'd say he'd rather have his nuts cut off with a rusty bandsaw than sit through a "mediation" session regarding all of this.I also can't believe it's been nearly a week and no one has been able to reach Hilary Barry for her views on the whole thing. Are stuff.co.nz run by amateurs?
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@MN5 said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Just when we thought it was all over and the butcher could go back to his normal routine of being a thoroughly decent bloke the dame outdoes her efforts last week by reaching bold new heights of fuckwittedness.
Forget Willie Apiata, forget any of your Granddads efforts in the war….THIS is bravery right here folks.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/88237905/dame-susan-devoy-lara-bridger-a-brave-young-woman
Jesus wept, the story about what was actually said seems to change each day to make Leitch look worse every time .
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Susan Devoy will milk this for all its worth to make her position look legitimate. Honestly I have no idea what her day to day would be. Basically just waiting for some delicate petal to take offense to something.
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@No-Quarter I dont expect there would be alot of waiting in todays precious society.
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Like racism, seems like they now also have alternative definitions for the word brave.
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Another day another whinge. Apparently this one expects sympathy and understanding when come across as being utterly obnoxious.
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11779674
