Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz
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@Kirwan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Perhaps even delve deeper into the DHB register database as to how a receptionist can't find a surname in the search function.
The head of the clinic surmised it could have been a spelling discrepancy.
No mention of the two parties engaging in a simple discussion of "let me try to find you in the system, how do you spell..." Then a DL would have been sufficient right?
Interesting that a passport will unlock the database info but not a DL
I've not turned up on their system before, but it's not even about that. Some people have to show proof to avoid abuse of the system.
That's a responsible system.
She looks Thai, sounds Thai, completely reasonable to ask for a passport when she didn't turn up in the search. Not remotely racist and she should have just turned up with the appropriate documentation.
Same rules are applied to everyone.
Some people have to show proof to avoid abuse of the system.
That's a responsible system.
Kirwan under a little scrutiny, your statement that some people have show proof is not a responsible system as it doesn't define who and what characterises "some"
Caucasians with an accent?
Asians born in NZ?
Jeetan Patel?
Lydia Ko?
Pansy Wong?
You?
Me?A responsible system aimed at reducing ALL health services fraud would require ALL patients to provide proof of nz citizenship, no?
A system that relies on receptionists deciding who comes back tomorrow with their passport is not a responsible system, I posit.
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I recently had scans on my throat and had to provide my passport as proof that I was an NZ citizen. It's not a big deal at all - just standard practice. The fact that this story and the one about the Mad Butcher make headlines as stories about "racism" shows just how fucking absurd things have gotten.
The Mad Butcher story was not racism. This story is not racism. People need to stop searching for fucking racism where it doesn't exist - the Mad Butcher and this DHB don't deserve to have their names dragged through the mud over this horseshit.
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@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Kirwan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Perhaps even delve deeper into the DHB register database as to how a receptionist can't find a surname in the search function.
The head of the clinic surmised it could have been a spelling discrepancy.
No mention of the two parties engaging in a simple discussion of "let me try to find you in the system, how do you spell..." Then a DL would have been sufficient right?
Interesting that a passport will unlock the database info but not a DL
I've not turned up on their system before, but it's not even about that. Some people have to show proof to avoid abuse of the system.
That's a responsible system.
She looks Thai, sounds Thai, completely reasonable to ask for a passport when she didn't turn up in the search. Not remotely racist and she should have just turned up with the appropriate documentation.
Same rules are applied to everyone.
Some people have to show proof to avoid abuse of the system.
That's a responsible system.
Kirwan under a little scrutiny, your statement that some people have show proof is not a responsible system as it doesn't define who and what characterises "some"
Caucasians with an accent?
Asians born in NZ?
Jeetan Patel?
Lydia Ko?
Pansy Wong?
You?
Me?A responsible system aimed at reducing ALL health services fraud would require ALL patients to provide proof of nz citizenship, no?
A system that relies on receptionists deciding who comes back tomorrow with their passport is not a responsible system, I posit.
How about people just taking a dose of 'toughen the fuck up'. When I was in London I had to carry my passport lots of places because I had an accent and needed to prove I was a citizen. Got an accent that is not the same as a native of the country, suck it up and carry your passport to places likely to be reserved for citizens.. like doctors that are not your own.
You jumped into this thread @Siam based on a completely and utterly ignorant knowledge of identification for residences and citizens and now you are just faffing about looking for a victim, there is no victim here except maybe the receptionist who did her job and has been criticised by the easily offended ' and know fuck all's'Yes some people have to show ID to stop abuse to the system.. so fucking what??? Part of being an immigrant. Lots of us here have had to deal with it, and havent bleated and bitched about it. It was inconvenient for me in the UK, but did I want to inconvenience every other single UK citizen because of it? No.
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@No-Quarter said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
I recently had scans on my throat and had to provide my passport as proof that I was an NZ citizen. It's not a big deal at all - just standard practice. The fact that this story and the one about the Mad Butcher make headlines as stories about "racism" shows just how fucking absurd things have gotten.
The Mad Butcher story was not racism. This story is not racism. People need to stop searching for fucking racism where it doesn't exist - the Mad Butcher and this DHB don't deserve to have their names dragged through the mud over this horseshit.
Good info, now that's a better system (id from everyone) and I wasn't sure if that was SOP in NZ for citizens wanting medical treatment. I get the feeling not all New Zealanders know they have to bring proof of citizenship for a visit to the doctor for a cold. I never have and a DL is used in a lot of cases (erroneously so, it would seem)
Totally agree that racism is a cure all shout for "I'm disaffected" and it's got so that it's a word with so many connotations and such power that people have ascribed too much weight to it. It's basically a verb just like walk and breathe yet people are reacting to it like it's a physical threat to all well being.
We've given words too much power
We've also somewhere along the line given people a false sense of importance as to what their opinion on something matters in the world, i.e. the relevance of your opinion.
NOT to be misconstrued with he relevance of a discussion or the relevance of sifting out objective facts or the relevance of looking at something in a different light, or the relevance of learning something.These days I'm trying to digest info by asking, "is it true?", can I trust the source? Does that information add to my perception or knowledge of a subject? Will that affect my daily life at all?
weeds out about 90% of mainstream media and about 80% of fern posts
weeds out about
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@No-Quarter said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@jegga @MN5 the wife and I watched that show Funny Girls for about 30 seconds before we had to stop to avoid gouging our eyes out. That's 30 seconds of my life I'm never getting back.
Ah so it's obviously an ironic name then?
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Kirwan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Perhaps even delve deeper into the DHB register database as to how a receptionist can't find a surname in the search function.
The head of the clinic surmised it could have been a spelling discrepancy.
No mention of the two parties engaging in a simple discussion of "let me try to find you in the system, how do you spell..." Then a DL would have been sufficient right?
Interesting that a passport will unlock the database info but not a DL
I've not turned up on their system before, but it's not even about that. Some people have to show proof to avoid abuse of the system.
That's a responsible system.
She looks Thai, sounds Thai, completely reasonable to ask for a passport when she didn't turn up in the search. Not remotely racist and she should have just turned up with the appropriate documentation.
Same rules are applied to everyone.
Some people have to show proof to avoid abuse of the system.
That's a responsible system.
Kirwan under a little scrutiny, your statement that some people have show proof is not a responsible system as it doesn't define who and what characterises "some"
Caucasians with an accent?
Asians born in NZ?
Jeetan Patel?
Lydia Ko?
Pansy Wong?
You?
Me?A responsible system aimed at reducing ALL health services fraud would require ALL patients to provide proof of nz citizenship, no?
A system that relies on receptionists deciding who comes back tomorrow with their passport is not a responsible system, I posit.
How about people just taking a dose of 'toughen the fuck up'. When I was in London I had to carry my passport lots of places because I had an accent and needed to prove I was a citizen. Got an accent that is not the same as a native of the country, suck it up and carry your passport to places likely to be reserved for citizens.. like doctors that are not your own.
You jumped into this thread @Siam based on a completely and utterly ignorant knowledge of identification for residences and citizens and now you are just faffing about looking for a victim, there is no victim here except maybe the receptionist who did her job and has been criticised by the easily offended ' and know fuck all's'Yes some people have to show ID to stop abuse to the system.. so fucking what??? Part of being an immigrant. Lots of us here have had to deal with it, and havent bleated and bitched about it. It was inconvenient for me in the UK, but did I want to inconvenience every other single UK citizen because of it? No.
Great post. To touch on it further its pretty likely that 'John from Fielding' is a citizen based on his appearance and accent eg rolling into the office in gumboots, stubbies, stinking of cow shit with a crate of tui in the back of the ute. Is that 'reverse racial profiling?'
Again, I could live in Beijing most of my life but given I'm a Caucasian there's a pretty high chance I'll be asked for proof of residency if I'm after subsidised health care. The last thing I'd do is kick up a stibk about it.
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When I was living in the UK and had to go to the ER for some stitches, when they couldnt find me with my surname (cos most people spell it wrong) they asked for my NI card/number, and then go oh with a B/I not a V/Y.
So I guess the question is, why couldnt this person find them in the system, was there a language barrier?
I recall one time in my old job, you had to ensure you got 3 peices of ID over the phone, but before this you needed the name correctly...this person was Asian, and clearly didnt have a great grasp of the English language,..
so I was wanting to confirm the letter was 'C' they were saying, so I said 'C' for Charlie, and they were like, name not Charlie, so I said is it 'C' like Cat? No, don'have cat...turned out it wasnt 'C', but 'S' FFS, cos once they worked out what I was trying, we got to 'C' like shark...so no wonder I couldnt ID them...luckily they didnt take me to the papers!
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Kirwan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Perhaps even delve deeper into the DHB register database as to how a receptionist can't find a surname in the search function.
The head of the clinic surmised it could have been a spelling discrepancy.
No mention of the two parties engaging in a simple discussion of "let me try to find you in the system, how do you spell..." Then a DL would have been sufficient right?
Interesting that a passport will unlock the database info but not a DL
I've not turned up on their system before, but it's not even about that. Some people have to show proof to avoid abuse of the system.
That's a responsible system.
She looks Thai, sounds Thai, completely reasonable to ask for a passport when she didn't turn up in the search. Not remotely racist and she should have just turned up with the appropriate documentation.
Same rules are applied to everyone.
Some people have to show proof to avoid abuse of the system.
That's a responsible system.
Kirwan under a little scrutiny, your statement that some people have show proof is not a responsible system as it doesn't define who and what characterises "some"
Caucasians with an accent?
Asians born in NZ?
Jeetan Patel?
Lydia Ko?
Pansy Wong?
You?
Me?A responsible system aimed at reducing ALL health services fraud would require ALL patients to provide proof of nz citizenship, no?
A system that relies on receptionists deciding who comes back tomorrow with their passport is not a responsible system, I posit.
How about people just taking a dose of 'toughen the fuck up'. When I was in London I had to carry my passport lots of places because I had an accent and needed to prove I was a citizen. Got an accent that is not the same as a native of the country, suck it up and carry your passport to places likely to be reserved for citizens.. like doctors that are not your own.
You jumped into this thread @Siam based on a completely and utterly ignorant knowledge of identification for residences and citizens and now you are just faffing about looking for a victim, there is no victim here except maybe the receptionist who did her job and has been criticised by the easily offended ' and know fuck all's'Yes some people have to show ID to stop abuse to the system.. so fucking what??? Part of being an immigrant. Lots of us here have had to deal with it, and havent bleated and bitched about it. It was inconvenient for me in the UK, but did I want to inconvenience every other single UK citizen because of it? No.
Yes yes, all people should be like you
Yes I did get the relevance of a DL wrong. Should I apologise? if so I do.
However if just one NZ citizen gets funding approved based solely on a DL for ID, then the NZ citizen born in Thailand has indeed got a genuine grievance.
Interesting that the perhaps one true authority in this story offered an explanation of who was at fault and it included the literary and procedural skills of his receptionist
As far as I'm aware a "foreigner" granted citizenship has the same rights as NZ citizen born in NZ. If this is erroneous on my part then I'll apologise, thank someone for the new information and be better off for it.
if just one NZ citizen gets funding approved based solely on a DL for ID and others can't because a receptionist deems it so then I'll object to a flawed system and suggest that NZ as a country has reneged on an immigration contract and that is a fault we should improve. After all it is our elected government that courts and grants citizenship for the benefit of NZ.
I'll also suggest there is an easy solution to this - same type of ID for everyone, everytime
Your anecdotes of you living in London have ZERO relevance to the NZ requirement of acceptable and uniform ID required for a NZ citizen to get health assistance IN NEW ZEALAND. Please stop "faffing" about that
If a DL is insufficient proof of citizenship for a new doctor's visit then surely no citizens should be allowed funding based on a DL as proof. Is that the case?
If so, good and I agree with you that the take home message from this story is that ALL New Zealanders should visit the doctor armed with ID stronger than a DL, i.e. birth certificate or passport
This is a story about insufficient ID and a system that doesn't perform
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@MN5 said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Kirwan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Perhaps even delve deeper into the DHB register database as to how a receptionist can't find a surname in the search function.
The head of the clinic surmised it could have been a spelling discrepancy.
No mention of the two parties engaging in a simple discussion of "let me try to find you in the system, how do you spell..." Then a DL would have been sufficient right?
Interesting that a passport will unlock the database info but not a DL
I've not turned up on their system before, but it's not even about that. Some people have to show proof to avoid abuse of the system.
That's a responsible system.
She looks Thai, sounds Thai, completely reasonable to ask for a passport when she didn't turn up in the search. Not remotely racist and she should have just turned up with the appropriate documentation.
Same rules are applied to everyone.
Some people have to show proof to avoid abuse of the system.
That's a responsible system.
Kirwan under a little scrutiny, your statement that some people have show proof is not a responsible system as it doesn't define who and what characterises "some"
Caucasians with an accent?
Asians born in NZ?
Jeetan Patel?
Lydia Ko?
Pansy Wong?
You?
Me?A responsible system aimed at reducing ALL health services fraud would require ALL patients to provide proof of nz citizenship, no?
A system that relies on receptionists deciding who comes back tomorrow with their passport is not a responsible system, I posit.
How about people just taking a dose of 'toughen the fuck up'. When I was in London I had to carry my passport lots of places because I had an accent and needed to prove I was a citizen. Got an accent that is not the same as a native of the country, suck it up and carry your passport to places likely to be reserved for citizens.. like doctors that are not your own.
You jumped into this thread @Siam based on a completely and utterly ignorant knowledge of identification for residences and citizens and now you are just faffing about looking for a victim, there is no victim here except maybe the receptionist who did her job and has been criticised by the easily offended ' and know fuck all's'Yes some people have to show ID to stop abuse to the system.. so fucking what??? Part of being an immigrant. Lots of us here have had to deal with it, and havent bleated and bitched about it. It was inconvenient for me in the UK, but did I want to inconvenience every other single UK citizen because of it? No.
Great post. To touch on it further its pretty likely that 'John from Fielding' is a citizen based on his appearance and accent eg rolling into the office in gumboots, stubbies, stinking of cow shit with a crate of tui in the back of the ute. Is that 'reverse racial profiling?'
Again, I could live in Beijing most of my life but given I'm a Caucasian there's a pretty high chance I'll be asked for proof of residency if I'm after subsidised health care. The last thing I'd do is kick up a stibk about it.
But this is about different operating procedures for people with the same status - NZ citizens.
We're judging 2 NZ citizens based on their appearance, that's rather spurious and counter to the advanced society that NZ is, isn't it?
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@Siam Permanent Residency has same rights, not just citizenship.
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@taniwharugby
In Beijing?But it doesn't matter I don't think. The story claims that the woman is a NZ citizen so let's just compare apples with apples or are you saying that permanent residency and citizenship are the same "apples" (welfare, voting rights, passport etc) - in which case, thanks for the info, I didn't know that, I assumed there was a slight difference because of the nomenclature
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In NZ permanent residency affords same rights: welfare, voting but not passport as you cant obtain a NZ passport on residency (well I do not believe so)
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@taniwharugby
Cool, good info thanks -
Well, I think it's a bit ridiculous, because one of the things which I love about NZ is that when you act locally, people pass over ridiculous ID rules. For example, when I'm home and go to the bank, I can walk in without my wallet and get my Credit card limit extended, new card, whatever - because I've known most of the (senior) bank staff (and always at least one teller) since I was a kid.
It just doesn't work that way here in TK, where I need all my cards to get anything done, even at the hospital where I spent a month after getting sick and everyone greets me by name. Because, no documents, can't follow the 'correct' procedures, no service. For a great example of how ridiculous that is, for about 3 years when I went to Vodafone, I had to spell my name incorrectly because the person who had input it from my form had spelled it wrong. And, they wouldn't change it, even when I showed them my resident card. Seriously, I had a conversation where I was told 'That's your name at Vodafone'.
I'm cool about needing my documents in NZ when I go somewhere new, and I'm cool about letting receptionists use their judgment about when they need to check whether ppl are NZers or residents or not, mainly because I think that life is a little bit nicer when people in service industries are allowed to have some autonomy about procedures. I'll bet that if this woman had dealt with the situation better (and the receptionist too) that story could have ended with the receptionist saying "Sorry about that, so let me put your Driver license in here too so that next time you come back, even if I'm not here, you'll be fine without your passport, dear" where if that lady came back the receptionist would know her and she'd get local treatment.
These sort of articles appear to want all interactions to be digital and 'correct' when humans are analog and use judgment.
- Disclaimer: The only situation I think this lady is getting screwed is if she has been to the same desk, same person, it's a small clinic (I didn't bother reading the article) and every time she still gets the run-around. That's the sort of situation where I think we should be worried, but if it's a big enough hospital and you're clearly not locally born and not well know, be prepared to identify yourself and your status. Seems pretty fair to me, which is different to, but much better than equality.
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@gt12 under privacy laws in NZ, they need to be certain they are talking to who they think they are.
Even if I know the persons number and voice when they ring me, I am' supposed' to privacy check them if I am going to be discussing thier stuff or making changes.
Last time I got my credit card increased, with the same bank I had been with since I was a teenager and the girl who did it had been at the bank almost since I had been there; I still had to go through all the same checks and filling in of forms I would when I do it with a bank I am new to.
I assume the person who signed yours off is actually taking a risk in doing so, because if they got checked or audited, they are breaching a whole bunch of 'red tape'
Not saying your experience is a bad thing, but we still have checks and balances
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@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@gt12 under privacy laws in NZ, they need to be certain they are talking to who they think they are.
Even if I know the persons number and voice when they ring me, I am' supposed' to privacy check them if I am going to be discussing thier stuff or making changes.
Last time I got my credit card increased, with the same bank I had been with since I was a teenager and the girl who did it had been at the bank almost since I had been there; I still had to go through all the same checks and filling in of forms I would when I do it with a bank I am new to.
I assume the person who signed yours off is actually taking a risk in doing so, because if they got checked or audited, they are breaching a whole bunch of 'red tape'
Not saying your experience is a bad thing, but we still have checks and balances
Yep, exactly my point. I totally understand why those kind of checks are needed and I don't mind the laws either, but I equally think it's mad that people are no longer allowed to use judgment appropriately. If I'm your client, I call from my registered number, and we've talked to each other 100 times and you are confident that I'm who I say I am, why aren't you to be trusted to use your judgment? I'm possibly in the minority here, but I'm happy to have occasional problems and mistakes made, if the overall quality of interactions and life is improved via reasonable systems.
As I'm in education, it would be nice if we could show students real life situations where they'll be called upon to use judgment, but such situations seem to be disappearing - at what cost? No mistakes but shitty interactions with people everywhere? They'll probably all be robots soon anyway, which seems to be what the systems are like anyway.
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@gt12 said in I'll bet that if this woman had dealt with the situation better (and the receptionist too) that story could have ended with the receptionist saying "Sorry about that, so let me put your Driver license in here too so that next time you come back, even if I'm not here, you'll be fine without your passport, dear" where if that lady came back the receptionist would know her and she'd get local treatment.
I'm all for this and I suspect from the managers quotes his receptionist wasn't too eager to facilitate this. Also the NZ citizen didn't help things going to the media, but that's after the fact.
Learnt a bit from this topic not least of all been surprised that some people think it's totally acceptable that 2 NZ citizens must and should show different identification for the same service because a receptionist can decide a legal requirement on the whim.
Those people that see this as ok display a level of logic and intelligence that in my opinion suggest a dearth of introspection and a glut of self righteousness!
You are more of a New Zealander if you were born here I guess
Birthplace lotto winners
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@gt12 oh I agree, and I rarely use any of the required forms to confirm the clients identity, but I know its them, but I also know I am 'supposed' to use them, so on ones I am a little unsure of there are questions you can ask to confirm without sounding like you are doing privacy checks
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@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@MN5 said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Kirwan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Perhaps even delve deeper into the DHB register database as to how a receptionist can't find a surname in the search function.
The head of the clinic surmised it could have been a spelling discrepancy.
No mention of the two parties engaging in a simple discussion of "let me try to find you in the system, how do you spell..." Then a DL would have been sufficient right?
Interesting that a passport will unlock the database info but not a DL
I've not turned up on their system before, but it's not even about that. Some people have to show proof to avoid abuse of the system.
That's a responsible system.
She looks Thai, sounds Thai, completely reasonable to ask for a passport when she didn't turn up in the search. Not remotely racist and she should have just turned up with the appropriate documentation.
Same rules are applied to everyone.
Some people have to show proof to avoid abuse of the system.
That's a responsible system.
Kirwan under a little scrutiny, your statement that some people have show proof is not a responsible system as it doesn't define who and what characterises "some"
Caucasians with an accent?
Asians born in NZ?
Jeetan Patel?
Lydia Ko?
Pansy Wong?
You?
Me?A responsible system aimed at reducing ALL health services fraud would require ALL patients to provide proof of nz citizenship, no?
A system that relies on receptionists deciding who comes back tomorrow with their passport is not a responsible system, I posit.
How about people just taking a dose of 'toughen the fuck up'. When I was in London I had to carry my passport lots of places because I had an accent and needed to prove I was a citizen. Got an accent that is not the same as a native of the country, suck it up and carry your passport to places likely to be reserved for citizens.. like doctors that are not your own.
You jumped into this thread @Siam based on a completely and utterly ignorant knowledge of identification for residences and citizens and now you are just faffing about looking for a victim, there is no victim here except maybe the receptionist who did her job and has been criticised by the easily offended ' and know fuck all's'Yes some people have to show ID to stop abuse to the system.. so fucking what??? Part of being an immigrant. Lots of us here have had to deal with it, and havent bleated and bitched about it. It was inconvenient for me in the UK, but did I want to inconvenience every other single UK citizen because of it? No.
Great post. To touch on it further its pretty likely that 'John from Fielding' is a citizen based on his appearance and accent eg rolling into the office in gumboots, stubbies, stinking of cow shit with a crate of tui in the back of the ute. Is that 'reverse racial profiling?'
Again, I could live in Beijing most of my life but given I'm a Caucasian there's a pretty high chance I'll be asked for proof of residency if I'm after subsidised health care. The last thing I'd do is kick up a stibk about it.
But this is about different operating procedures for people with the same status - NZ citizens.
We're judging 2 NZ citizens based on their appearance, that's rather spurious and counter to the advanced society that NZ is, isn't it?
Not at all. It's people making assumptions based on appearances which, especially in a place like Palmy, will be correct 999 times out of 1000.
The receptionist at the medical place did this. I'll bet everyone on this thread ( except you ) would do exactly the same.
