All Blacks v Ireland II
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@SimonAdd_2 said in Ireland II:
That's about as clear as it gets. Unfortunate for Cane as I think it was unintentional and Henshaw did spin into him, but it's a shoulder to the head that knocks a player unconscious. He'll get a few weeks' ban.
Fair enough, that angle does clear it up. Accidental but likely to cop a ban, though I don't agree that it should.
Incredible that Sexton wasn't cited given his was a calculated swinging arm.
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@SimonAdd_2 said in Ireland II:
@NTA said in Ireland II:
@SimonAdd_2 said in Ireland II:
Both 8s break before the ball is out IMO - as you say, pretty simultaneously.
Is an attacking 8 allowed to detach before the ball is at his feet?
Technically the scrum ends when the ball is at his feet and he unbinds.
20.10 (c) Hindmost player unbinds. The hindmost player in a scrum is the player whose feet are nearest the team’s own goal line. If the hindmost player unbinds from the scrum with the ball at that player’s feet and picks up the ball, the scrum ends.
Read has probably gambled a bit on when Heaslip would detach, thinking maybe that Ireland would run from 8.
Its a close one, and Peyper is the kind of ref who will just let the players sort it out. I haven't seen the game so don't know what the penalty was actually given for.
Yeah, but Heaslip unbinds before the ball was at his feet (at about the same time Read does). Scrum can't be over, so could be a penalty either way? Not sure what to make of it to be honest.
Squire is the first to unbind from the scrum. He does this as the Irish tighthead goes backwards and then folds in. That's where the advantage comes from. Read follows early and the Irish get control and start moving forward but VDF (?) unbinds and presents the ball, so there's no possible way they can be awarded a penalty try.
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@Bovidae said in Ireland II:
@ACT-Crusader Tamanivalu is in the squad too, and he and ALB have played together before. Losing BFA means you lose a back-up midfielder too in the 23. Naholo is NOT a centre as he struggles defensively on the wing.
Agree about Rieko - he's unproven in the midfield but could make the bench vs France with the injuries.
For some reason I thought Seta was sent back home.
Seta would be better than Reiko at this point and the combo is there with ALB. It will have some nervous but I do prefer that with all the options crook.
Savea will play because he's an experienced player that we will need.
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@ACT-Crusader and i thought he was pretty good on Saturday as well. He really does get marked harshly.
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@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
@SimonAdd_2 yep, it's all in the timing, and who the ref happened to be looking at. They clamped down on the attacking #8 changing channels a couple of years ago to combat this very thing. Heaslip definitely unbinds early, and tries to re-bind (penalisable) but i think Read does go first. Result: Penalty Ireland. But again, to call "blatant!!" and whinge for more than just the penalty is fucking ludicrous.
This really is delicious. I always loved beating the Irish more than anyone else because of their huge amounts of entitled whinging, but had softened, especially after the other week. The last couple of days has set the world straight again.
Sorry Pot Hale, you've been pretty good recently, but some of your compatriots need to have a fucking look at themselves. Just shows that expectation is a bitch.
I've been pretty good recently?
Gosh thanks ever so much Mr Mariner. Thank God I didn't offend you or behave like one of my compatriots who are unique amongst sport fans the world over in that some of them complain or whinge about some aspect of a game they've watched. Totally aberrant behaviour.
😏
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@Pot-Hale sarcasm will get you everywhere with me.
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@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
@Pot-Hale sarcasm will get you everywhere with me.
Well I was going to say - go suck balls, you pompous, sanctimonious, condescending, generalising squeezed up tight popcorn fart, but I thought I should reply politely. So I did.
Love and kisses. X
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@Pot-Hale said in Ireland II:
@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
@Pot-Hale sarcasm will get you everywhere with me.
Well I was going to say - go suck balls, you pompous, sanctimonious, condescending, generalising squeezed up tight popcorn fart, but I thought I should reply politely. So I did.
Love and kisses. X
popcorn fart is new.
Eat a box of cocks
(cheers to your lads for a great little 2 test series, good luck next week and in the 6N)
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@MajorRage said in Ireland II:
Trial by media is alive and well up north. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
And their media has the advantage of 65" ultra HD sonic boom monitors. Whilst we are peddling on the bike powered generator to get the 12" B&W to run, so obviously haven't seen the same angles they have.
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Former All Black 3/4, Douglas Howlett was seen trying to enter the All Blacks dressing room after New Zealand defeated Ireland 21-9. A man who did not appear to have any official capacity other than some sources saying he was seen cutting oranges at half-time, questioned Mr Howlett. The questioning got quite animated with the man asking "who are you". Mr Howlett, replied, "I'm Doug Howlett, leading try scorer, to which the man said "never heard of ya".
The arguing quickly turned to pushing. Mr Howlett was seen shortly after the scuffle with pride deflated and redness under the left eye....
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@Pot-Hale said in Ireland II:
@mariner4life said in Ireland II:
@SimonAdd_2 yep, it's all in the timing, and who the ref happened to be looking at. They clamped down on the attacking #8 changing channels a couple of years ago to combat this very thing. Heaslip definitely unbinds early, and tries to re-bind (penalisable) but i think Read does go first. Result: Penalty Ireland. But again, to call "blatant!!" and whinge for more than just the penalty is fucking ludicrous.
This really is delicious. I always loved beating the Irish more than anyone else because of their huge amounts of entitled whinging, but had softened, especially after the other week. The last couple of days has set the world straight again.
Sorry Pot Hale, you've been pretty good recently, but some of your compatriots need to have a fucking look at themselves. Just shows that expectation is a bitch.
I've been pretty good recently?
Gosh thanks ever so much Mr Mariner. Thank God I didn't offend you or behave like one of my compatriots who are unique amongst sport fans the world over in that some of them complain or whinge about some aspect of a game they've watched. Totally aberrant behaviour.
😏
You've been particularly good this weekend. Not watching the game and therefore not Really commenting on it. That's how we like foreign fans the best.
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@Rapido said in Ireland II:
You've been particularly good this weekend. Not watching the game and therefore not Really commenting on it. That's how we like foreign fans the best.
@Pot-Hale has been good as he hasn't down the rabbit hole with the rest of the Irish media, believing that there is corruption at the top level in sport, that the ABs shouldn't have had two tries awarded, and that the All Blacks deliberately and cynically opponents knowing that the refs won't touch them.
All this hoo hah has taken the gloss off a magnificently physical test match that was a pleasure to watch.
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My 2 euro's worth
Think about how you'd be feeling if the jerseys were reversed...
Anyone who says they weren't worried until inside the last 5 minutes is deluded.
The paddies dominated the breakdown and that means you win the game 9 times out of 10. Our tactic of not committing numbers needs to be revisited.
Defence was in the main awesome although we did miss more 1-1's than I was comfortable with. When was the last time yoU saw 3 AB defenders run through? However our reliance on desperate defence is a major contributor to the yellows and despite sentiment here I think we could have had people off for longer. Fekitoa could easily have been given red on another day.
Didn't really have an issue with Smith's as it was effectively a team yellow for repeated infringing. Little prick shouldn't have been on the park by that stage anyway and shouldn't get a run until his form is back.
Peyper was influenced by the crowd but that's no surprise - he has previous form. Reckon the orchestrated complaining by Best and his teammates was counter-productive.
Initially thought that cane shouldn't have been binned but that video Simon posted looked bad - unintentional but bad
Retallick is a beast and whitelock isn't far behind. BB proved his class - Dagg and ALB proved what 20/20 hindsight said post Chicago and Ben from accounts looked better at 9 than the best halfback in the world.
Overall very relieved but thought we narrowly deserved the win because we scored when we had the opportunities and Ireland didn't. It must have been quite demoralising to keep on getting inside our danger zone and coming away empty handed.
Their backline didn't look capable of creating opportunity but I guess losing your two playmakers has to hurt.
Few myths demolished over the two games though - Ireland didn't run out of puff and their depth was pretty damn good. Potentially spices up Lions tour big time.
Very enjoyable true test footy. Although not good for the blood pressure of an old man
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@No-Quarter Disagree. The angle from behind Cane clearly shows the head clash first. Really this is a lot of bleating about nothing. Purely accidental.
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@broughie said in Ireland II:
@No-Quarter Disagree. The angle from behind Cane clearly shows the head clash first. Really this is a lot of bleating about nothing. Purely accidental.
Problem is that the second video "clearly" shows daylight between their heads the whole time.
I would agree that the first video complete with whinging commentators "appears" to show head on head contact but the second angle confirms it is just an optical illusion.Having said that i think it was accidental and wasn't worth a card or a ban.
Anyone got a slo mo replay of sextons swinging arm?Edit: unless of course the second angle just doesn't capture the frame or two that the head contact happens.
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@Crucial said in Ireland II:
On another topic, I have just been watching BBs try again (by the way was able to freeze frame a clear and obvious grounding) and the making of that break is a brilliant piece of planning by Foster to utilise BBs acceleration.
Basically Ireland's defensive pattern is illegal. Their halfback moves across to cover the attacking 10 channel before the scrum ends without dropping behind his 8.20.12
(e)
The scrum half whose team does not win possession of the ball must not move away from the scrum and then remain in front of the offside line. For that scrum half that runs through the hindmost foot of that player’s team in the scrum.Thought he had to drop back 5m if he mived away from the scrum?
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The thing which causes a problem with videos replays from different angles is that you need to have a calibrated timer on each angle to make a proper comparison. In the Barrett try, from the right hand view in frame by frame one can see the white of one side of the ball lower than Sexton's wrist and touching the ground momentarily. The ball then rebounds and Sexton lifts it upwards. From the left view one can only see the side of the ball which was on Sexton's wrist and the uplift, which I believe happened AFTER the grounding. With calibrated timing one could be sure.
Haven't been able to get same clarity on Cane tackle. Hydro talks about two 'realities' but it is quite possible that the timings are out of synch. It looked to me from one angle like a contact between right side of Cane's face and Henshaw head, followed by a rebound/separation. From the other angle one never sees contact. What one really needs is to be able to look at the 'non-contact' angle whilst using the timer to tell the actual time point where the apparent contact on the other angle was. I'm guessing that at that point on the second angle one head may be obscured by the other, and that by the time one gets a clear view but sees clear daylight the contact had ALREADY happened. I hope the ABs have good video technicians for the hearing as it may be the case can be blown up by some good photos.
BTW Cane's ankle followed Heaslip's forearm making contact with his face. Didn't see any backswing but Cane's head shot backwards and he rolled his ankle. One could go on...
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Just had another look. My best guess is at the point where from one angle it appears like a head clash the other angle shows daylight, but Henshaw's head spinning into Cane's shoulder, in fact maybe doing so to avoid head clash.
For me not a case of headhunting, and not a card, but recognise panel may wish to make a point about head injuries and high tackles and give Canes a couple of week's paid leave.
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