Black Caps v Pakistan
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We've got uncertainty in our lineup and it appears at least from the outside that we don't know what to do with our middle order. Do we know our best bowling combinations? With Santner out that causes more headaches I'd say.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Is it arrogant to assume a 2-0 victory to the BCs ? Pakistan hasn't played outstandingly well in NZ since the two Ws retired and NZ are a different team at home.....I say this all despite losing the last five tests too.
Probably, Pakistan were number one for a while there, they've got an awesome team and their seam attack won't mind some assistance at all. It will be a tough series.
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Is it arrogant to assume a 2-0 victory to the BCs ? Pakistan hasn't played outstandingly well in NZ since the two Ws retired and NZ are a different team at home.....I say this all despite losing the last five tests too.
Probably, Pakistan were number one for a while there, they've got an awesome team and their seam attack won't mind some assistance at all. It will be a tough series.
I hear all that but in many ways they're like France are in rugby.........and the Black Caps certainly aren't the ABs in comparison.....let's not forget our noitoriously shitty weather at this time of year playing a part too ie cold, bleak and blustery but still "playable" so to speak.
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favouritism would come with us assuming Williamson dominates, Rossco rediscovers form, Latham continues progress, and someone else gets hot with the bat. And we find a spinner, and someone backs up Boult, and Wagner can keep bouncing people out.
Considering Pakistan have proven they can win in England, we can't just rely on them being done over by the conditions.
Personally only home advantage has us at 50/50 i reckon
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@mariner4life said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
favouritism would come with us assuming Williamson dominates, Rossco rediscovers form, Latham continues progress, and someone else gets hot with the bat. And we find a spinner, and someone backs up Boult, and Wagner can keep bouncing people out.
Considering Pakistan have proven they can win in England, we can't just rely on them being done over by the conditions.
Personally only home advantage has us at 50/50 i reckon
It's a strange obsession I reckon we should give up on. The next Murali or Warne is pie in the sky stuff but even the next Vettori is beyond us which makes you appreciate how good DV was.
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@MN5 you know you're the only one saying that right? You rubbish Santner because he's not Warne/Murali, then say we need to stop obsessing about having someone as good as Warne/Murali.
I don't need Warne, i would be happy with Nathan Lyon for christ's sake. Santner might be alright, but i think he's out? Craig is fucking terrible. Sodhi far too loose. Even on a seamer i still think you need a spin bowler, and i am loath to require our best bat and skipper to also carry a shit load of 4th inning overs.
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All we need is someone who can consistently hold down an end when it matters. Not someone who gives away 4 balls and releases any pressure our better bowlers apply. I like Santner but he's injured and out for at least the 1st test. We are scraping when it comes to who is next. Just have to look at who got the emergency call up last series....
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@mariner4life said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 you know you're the only one saying that right? You rubbish Santner because he's not Warne/Murali, then say we need to stop obsessing about having someone as good as Warne/Murali.
I don't need Warne, i would be happy with Nathan Lyon for christ's sake. Santner might be alright, but i think he's out? Craig is fucking terrible. Sodhi far too loose. Even on a seamer i still think you need a spin bowler, and i am loath to require our best bat and skipper to also carry a shit load of 4th inning overs.
Well you said Santner had a "good" tour of India which in itself is an interesting call.
52 runs per wicket I think he got ? how's that any better than Sodhi or Craig ?
He seems to have potential with the bat granted but are we really at the stage where it's a case of "chuck some overs down and hope for the best?"
There's no rule that a team HAS to have a designated spinner. DV was an automatic selection. None of these guys have shown anything close to what he did.
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@MN5 um, no shit? You started this by replying to my comment that we had to find a spinner. If we had one already, we wouldn't have to look would we.
I may have slightly overstated his tour of India, but i heard more than one indian commentator who was reasonably impressed with him despite his figures. He's far from the finished article, but shows promise. But he's out. So we are still looking.
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Just looked at the stats for the Indian test series. He took 10 wickets at 52, equal top wicket taker with Boult (who averaged 33).
Craig took 2 @ 70
Sodhi took 3 @ 50
Patel took 6 @ 49 -
All I'm saying is Craig = shit....and injured
Sodhi = slightly above Craig, not sure of his health
Patel = maybe a slight notch above again....
Santner = possibly the best of them all....which is moot as he is injuredA combination of all four of them at various times got the Black Caps five test losses in a row.
Again, no set rule that a team HAS to have a spinner, none of these guys exactly inspire confidence so if there's someone potentially better plugging away in NZ domestic cricket then let's see him.....if not then why not go in with four seam bowlers ? Wagner and Bracewell in particular don't exactly shirk work.
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@MN5 if we had 4 good seamers i would probably agree with you, but we don't. And that is short term thinking as it hardly sets us up to play anywhere but in NZ, and maybe England.
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@mariner4life said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 if we had 4 good seamers i would probably agree with you, but we don't. And that is short term thinking as it hardly sets us up to play anywhere but in NZ, and maybe England.
You don't rate a combo of Boult, Southee, Wagner and Bracewell at their best ? ( fair enough, chances of that happening at once is remote.....but this last couple of weeks has proved anything is fucken possible in the world )
But anyway you say we don't have four good seamers, I counter that with we don't have one good spinner.
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@MN5 Bracewell? He averages about 45 since that one great test (and what a test it was). Wagner is the stock bowler we need. Southee? come on, "at his best" and "over the last couple of years" are a world apart.
Look, i understand your argument (now that you have moved the goalposts) and it's not without merit, i just think we need a spinner if we are to be successful going forward. And if it's a choice of a shit 4th seamer, or a shit spinner, i'll take the spinner because he might grow in to something, whereas i know what Bracewell is, or is not, capable of.
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 if we had 4 good seamers i would probably agree with you, but we don't. And that is short term thinking as it hardly sets us up to play anywhere but in NZ, and maybe England.
You don't rate a combo of Boult, Southee, Wagner and Bracewell at their best ? ( fair enough, chances of that happening at once is remote.....but this last couple of weeks has proved anything is fucken possible in the world )
But anyway you say we don't have four good seamers, I counter that with we don't have one good spinner.
mmm if we went into a test match with that I know I'd be holding my breath for long periods of time....
Plus that's a very long tail on top of a jittery middle order.
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@reprobate but he's played enough tests for us to judge him on that average alone
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@ACT-Crusader said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 if we had 4 good seamers i would probably agree with you, but we don't. And that is short term thinking as it hardly sets us up to play anywhere but in NZ, and maybe England.
You don't rate a combo of Boult, Southee, Wagner and Bracewell at their best ? ( fair enough, chances of that happening at once is remote.....but this last couple of weeks has proved anything is fucken possible in the world )
But anyway you say we don't have four good seamers, I counter that with we don't have one good spinner.
mmm if we went into a test match with that I know I'd be holding my breath for long periods of time....
Plus that's a very long tail on top of a jittery middle order.
Is it ? I guess all our shit spinners can at least hold a bat.
....not to mention Bracewell is an "all rounder"......we're sweet.
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@mariner4life fair enough, but then santner has played enough first class games to suggest that is representative too.
