2016 End-of-year internationals
-
@MN5 said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
Keith Wood was bloody good in a team that was often going backwards. As for the other two you mention are they genuinely good players or just "cult hero" types ? Not having watched much of Namibia or Georgia I'm not the best person to comment.
agree wood was a standout in a team that was only reasonable - but ireland is not italy, and certainly not georgia or namibia.
gorgodza was voted best foreign player in france a few years back, and burger was saracens player of the year when they won the premiership a few years ago too; they're good players.
on top of that i guess it does always make me warm to a player when you see them absolutely hoeing in and laying waste to everyone they can (and themselves in the process) in games which are a total lost cause because their team is hopelessly outmatched. it's that go down fighting sort of attitude - made me change my mind about shalk burger too that. initially thought: very good player, bit dirty, whatever - but in that real rough patch the boks had he just lifted and lifted game after game, loss after loss - it was bloody heroic, and he's now an all-time great bok in my eyes. -
@Bones well the claim has been made he would play a heap of tests (100 was mentioned) but filling in for those guys you mention won't get you many.
While he's a better player than Messam there's no guarantee he would be picked as Kaino's replacement given the significant differences in how they play.
-
@MN5 Yeah, I don't think I can talk about this with someone showing this much idiocy. Gray is tall, that's about it. Does fuck all else, nowhere near the workrate of Thrush. I guess it goes to show how shit a player Caucau was, that Fiji never won the world cup with him there. Your knowledge sucks bro and you're showing it.
@mariner4life I didn't make that claim?
-
@Bones said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@MN5 Yeah, I don't think I can talk about this with someone showing this much idiocy. Gray is tall, that's about it. Does fuck all else, nowhere near the workrate of Thrush. I guess it goes to show how shit a player Caucau was, that Fiji never won the world cup with him there. Your knowledge sucks bro and you're showing it.
@mariner4life I didn't make that claim?
I thought the "walked into the team" bit would've given away the sarcasm ? Stop picking on Scotland, I'm not dissing the bourne or even the middle east.
Parisse has played in a heap more WCs than Caucau who was pretty much one of the stars of the tournament in the one he played in. I'm saying he wouldn't have played 100 tests for the ABs, if you can find a post where I'm claiming he's shit then show me, otherwise stop with the niggly shit.
-
@MN5 said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@Bones said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
You've summed it up in your last sentence. You watch fuck all rugby and claim to know just how good Parisse is and where he sits in the echelon of players?
He's nothing like bod. No one is saying he's the best. But he's not crap, he's very, very good. If he was available to NZ he'd be in every squad - you can't say that about too many overseas players...there aren't any in the Scotland team for example.
Now come on, if Jeremy Thrush can make the ABs then Richie Gray would have walked into the team. Must be fun having time to watch lots of Georgian and Namibian games.
If Parisse is that good then the other 14 Italians must be fucken horrific players.
@SammyC I don't go out of my way to watch Italy but to me the proof is in the ( lack of ) results. Repeated nominations for player of the year in the northern hemisphere doesn't exactly indicate he's underrated. How many times has Italy made it out of the group stages in the WC while he's been playing ?
He doesn't play every position. The Economist did a piece on why Italy underachieve and it comes down to a lack of a quality first five-eighth.
-
@antipodean said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@MN5 said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@Bones said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
You've summed it up in your last sentence. You watch fuck all rugby and claim to know just how good Parisse is and where he sits in the echelon of players?
He's nothing like bod. No one is saying he's the best. But he's not crap, he's very, very good. If he was available to NZ he'd be in every squad - you can't say that about too many overseas players...there aren't any in the Scotland team for example.
Now come on, if Jeremy Thrush can make the ABs then Richie Gray would have walked into the team. Must be fun having time to watch lots of Georgian and Namibian games.
If Parisse is that good then the other 14 Italians must be fucken horrific players.
@SammyC I don't go out of my way to watch Italy but to me the proof is in the ( lack of ) results. Repeated nominations for player of the year in the northern hemisphere doesn't exactly indicate he's underrated. How many times has Italy made it out of the group stages in the WC while he's been playing ?
He doesn't play every position. The Economist did a piece on why Italy underachieve and it comes down to a lack of a quality first five-eighth.
The Economist is the guru for international rugby performance now?
Anyway, Parisse is an awesome player but for much of the past 6 or 7 years one or other of the guys he would have been competing against (Read and Kaino) has been the best player in the ABs.
If He was already in the ABs before their arrival could have held them out to get to 100 test? No idea.
-
@antipodean said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
BOD had two seasons IMO where there was no doubt he was the best centre in rugby.
For me between Mortlock, Umaga, O'Driscoll and for earlier periods during their era Robbie Fleck - none truly put themselves head and shoulders above the others. BOD certainly had the Irish and BIL hype machine behind him though.
It's one of the reasons I don't rate Umaga that highly when it comes to all-time great ABs.
-
@Nepia said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@antipodean said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@MN5 said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@Bones said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
You've summed it up in your last sentence. You watch fuck all rugby and claim to know just how good Parisse is and where he sits in the echelon of players?
He's nothing like bod. No one is saying he's the best. But he's not crap, he's very, very good. If he was available to NZ he'd be in every squad - you can't say that about too many overseas players...there aren't any in the Scotland team for example.
Now come on, if Jeremy Thrush can make the ABs then Richie Gray would have walked into the team. Must be fun having time to watch lots of Georgian and Namibian games.
If Parisse is that good then the other 14 Italians must be fucken horrific players.
@SammyC I don't go out of my way to watch Italy but to me the proof is in the ( lack of ) results. Repeated nominations for player of the year in the northern hemisphere doesn't exactly indicate he's underrated. How many times has Italy made it out of the group stages in the WC while he's been playing ?
He doesn't play every position. The Economist did a piece on why Italy underachieve and it comes down to a lack of a quality first five-eighth.
The Economist is the guru for international rugby performance now?
That's the beauty of statistical analysis.
-
@rotated said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@antipodean said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
BOD had two seasons IMO where there was no doubt he was the best centre in rugby.
For me between Mortlock, Umaga, O'Driscoll and for earlier periods during their era Robbie Fleck - none truly put themselves head and shoulders above the others. BOD certainly had the Irish and BIL hype machine behind him though.
It's one of the reasons I don't rate Umaga that highly when it comes to all-time great ABs.
Tana was an excellent player, and was an inspirational captain at a time when we needed one. But Ma'a Nonu had the far superior career in the final analysis and was IMHO a more influential player on the field
-
Imagine if Parisse pulled a hamstring today and missed the 2016 November internationals...all this awesome discussion would be temporarily in vain.
Parisse is Argentinean born to Italian parents (but seemingly has always considered himself Italian) . Perhaps a better hypothetical question is: would he keep Facundo Isa out of Los Pumas?
-
sam cane has played 37 tests pretty much as a back-up and he's 24 years old, messam 45 tests. parisse would have got a fair few caps for us i reckon - as long as he didn't fuck off overseas for the money.
o'driscoll was a much better centre than umaga, mortlock, or fleck in my eyes. fleck i can barely even remember. umaga and mortlock both very, very good players - but both more very good footy players (and leaders) than very good centres. being a whinging cock-head does't change how good he was as a player: if he had been an AB he would have fucking carved up.
how good is isa playing? he's awesome.
-
@reprobate said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
sam cane has played 37 tests pretty much as a back-up and he's 24 years old, messam 45 tests. parisse would have got a fair few caps for us i reckon - as long as he didn't fuck off overseas for the money.
o'driscoll was a much better centre than umaga, mortlock, or fleck in my eyes. fleck i can barely even remember. umaga and mortlock both very, very good players - but both more very good footy players (and leaders) than very good centres. being a whinging cock-head does't change how good he was as a player: if he had been an AB he would have fucking carved up.
how good is isa playing? he's awesome.
after reading Tanas book, I reckon. He's a bit of a whinging cock-head too
Not on the Norm Hewitt level though
-
@SammyC said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@reprobate said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
sam cane has played 37 tests pretty much as a back-up and he's 24 years old, messam 45 tests. parisse would have got a fair few caps for us i reckon - as long as he didn't fuck off overseas for the money.
o'driscoll was a much better centre than umaga, mortlock, or fleck in my eyes. fleck i can barely even remember. umaga and mortlock both very, very good players - but both more very good footy players (and leaders) than very good centres. being a whinging cock-head does't change how good he was as a player: if he had been an AB he would have fucking carved up.
how good is isa playing? he's awesome.
after reading Tanas book, I reckon. He's a bit of a whinging cock-head too
Not on the Norm Hewitt level though
Come on Sammy, other All Blacks treaded carefully when talking about Mike Brewer, Norm just came out and called him a "Grade A prick" which I thought was hilarious.
-
@MN5 said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@SammyC said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@reprobate said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
sam cane has played 37 tests pretty much as a back-up and he's 24 years old, messam 45 tests. parisse would have got a fair few caps for us i reckon - as long as he didn't fuck off overseas for the money.
o'driscoll was a much better centre than umaga, mortlock, or fleck in my eyes. fleck i can barely even remember. umaga and mortlock both very, very good players - but both more very good footy players (and leaders) than very good centres. being a whinging cock-head does't change how good he was as a player: if he had been an AB he would have fucking carved up.
how good is isa playing? he's awesome.
after reading Tanas book, I reckon. He's a bit of a whinging cock-head too
Not on the Norm Hewitt level though
Come on Sammy, other All Blacks treaded carefully when talking about Mike Brewer, Norm just came out and called him a "Grade A prick" which I thought was hilarious.
Hewitt is a big crybaby with a massive chip on his shoulder.
Get over it Norm, Fitzy was way better than you
-
@SammyC said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@MN5 said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@SammyC said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@reprobate said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
sam cane has played 37 tests pretty much as a back-up and he's 24 years old, messam 45 tests. parisse would have got a fair few caps for us i reckon - as long as he didn't fuck off overseas for the money.
o'driscoll was a much better centre than umaga, mortlock, or fleck in my eyes. fleck i can barely even remember. umaga and mortlock both very, very good players - but both more very good footy players (and leaders) than very good centres. being a whinging cock-head does't change how good he was as a player: if he had been an AB he would have fucking carved up.
how good is isa playing? he's awesome.
after reading Tanas book, I reckon. He's a bit of a whinging cock-head too
Not on the Norm Hewitt level though
Come on Sammy, other All Blacks treaded carefully when talking about Mike Brewer, Norm just came out and called him a "Grade A prick" which I thought was hilarious.
Hewitt is a big crybaby with a massive chip on his shoulder.
Get over it Norm, Fitzy was way better than you
His bitterness and hostility made for great reading though.
-
@MN5 said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@SammyC said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@MN5 said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@SammyC said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@reprobate said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
sam cane has played 37 tests pretty much as a back-up and he's 24 years old, messam 45 tests. parisse would have got a fair few caps for us i reckon - as long as he didn't fuck off overseas for the money.
o'driscoll was a much better centre than umaga, mortlock, or fleck in my eyes. fleck i can barely even remember. umaga and mortlock both very, very good players - but both more very good footy players (and leaders) than very good centres. being a whinging cock-head does't change how good he was as a player: if he had been an AB he would have fucking carved up.
how good is isa playing? he's awesome.
after reading Tanas book, I reckon. He's a bit of a whinging cock-head too
Not on the Norm Hewitt level though
Come on Sammy, other All Blacks treaded carefully when talking about Mike Brewer, Norm just came out and called him a "Grade A prick" which I thought was hilarious.
Hewitt is a big crybaby with a massive chip on his shoulder.
Get over it Norm, Fitzy was way better than you
His bitterness and hostility made for great reading though.
Haha, good summary
-
Mike Brewer was a dick though...
-
@rotated said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
@antipodean said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:
BOD had two seasons IMO where there was no doubt he was the best centre in rugby.
For me between Mortlock, Umaga, O'Driscoll and for earlier periods during their era Robbie Fleck - none truly put themselves head and shoulders above the others. BOD certainly had the Irish and BIL hype machine behind him though.
It's one of the reasons I don't rate Umaga that highly when it comes to all-time great ABs.
Seriously? I get the point that he wouldn't be top of the list in the 13 jersey. Conrad, Bruce Robertson, Bunce easily above him when picking an all-time XV, but as an all time great AB you have to look at the whole picture not one position.
While never the best ever in any of the positions he played he was very good at all of them, he added a new dimension to the game showing the usefulness of flanker kills in the midfield (we take that for granted now but T showed the way) and was an inspiring captain arguably laying the platform that McCaw could build on. The way he used to combine with Cully was one of the highlights of AB rugby.
He is not only an AB great but an all-time NZ Rugby great and still adding to his achievements. Lifted an also ran provincial side to their first ever Shield tenure and set them up to be a Premiership regular. I wouldn't put it past him to turn the Blues around given a few seasons and would put money on him being in the AB coaching setup one day.
