All Blacks 2025
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Lio-Willie has been the most consistent performer at 8. Both sides of the ball
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I think they will go with Finau with EB in the squad. My gut feeling is they are basically conservative. Seems to me picking Savea at 7 gives them more options. Would he be the best 7 of all the options? Probably is or in top 2 or 3. And has that experience and mana.
As to Sititi at 8 in ABs-I thought he played against France and Japan there and was ok to pretty good? Hasn't been pulled in an AB game (yet). -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
I think they will go with Finau with EB in the squad. My gut feeling is they are basically conservative. Seems to me picking Savea at 7 gives them more options. Would he be the best 7 of all the options? Probably is or in top 2 or 3. And has that experience and mana.
As to Sititi at 8 in ABs-I thought he played against France and Japan there and was ok to pretty good? Hasn't been pulled in an AB game (yet).Well they couldn't really pull Sititi in that game against the Pumas we lost last year but he had a shocker.
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My prediction for AB selection is that after Super form meant absolutely nothing last year, if the Crusaders manage to win the thing this year it will suddenly mean a lot, with comments like "red and black player X really stood up in the finals which is akin to test footy" from our completely unbiased coaching group.
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On speed of loosies, McCaw wasn't exactly a speed merchant either. More important than speed, particularly for a loosie playing the tighter role, is a big engine and great game awareness which allows them to get themselves in the right position more often than not.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
Lio-Willie has been the most consistent performer at 8. Both sides of the ball
Been their best loose for the last couple of seasons.
He really feels like an 8 to me, and he’s not exactly huge.
If they were prepared to shake it up and put in a real 8, he or Sotutu would be my picks, especially based on form.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader Yeah, it is a possibility that I've been ignoring - the straight swap of Dalton for Cane and keeping Savea at 8. It did seem a bit like DP was on the outer last year though, which you wouldn't think they would do if that were the plan for this year.
They seemed very reluctant to play Savea at 7 last year, but there is a lot of evidence from this year that he's quite capable there, so I think that shifts the calculus a bit further against Dalton.
Second year blues for Sititi is something I think all of us are ignoring as he was such a highlight for us in a somewhat grim last year. He's seen as an 8 by those who have been following him from a young age, but his best AB performances so far have been at 6 - no idea what the coaches are thinking there.Sititi's best performances came at 6, but he didn't really the play the role of a 6, which is why our loosies got outplayed regardless. Balance is critical in the loosies and I don't think we should ruin that balance by trying to shoehorn both Ardie and Sititi into the starting 15. One of them on the bench would give us a huge weapon in the 2nd 40 as well.
I thought Dalts might have been on the outer last year but have seen comments that he had a hamstring injury during the EOYT which is why he didn't feature. I really hope (hoping against hope given he's an Aucklander) that they have him penciled in as their starting 7. A trio of Finau/Parker, Dalton and Savea with Sititi our weapon off the bench has a much better look than something like Blackadder, Savea, Sititi starting.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
On speed of loosies, McCaw wasn't exactly a speed merchant either. More important than speed, particularly for a loosie playing the tighter role, is a big engine and great game awareness which allows them to get themselves in the right position more often than not.
True, up to a point.
Like someone said with height at the lineout - it's not an issue until it's a big issue. If you aren't fast, you start needing other players who are around you - and then that changes the balance of the trio. And if you aren't fast enough and you go up against players who are faster, that can be a real problem. Also, early McCaw was quick!
We're looking at stats when they can be misleading - part of the issue with early Hooper and with Adam Thomson were they got to lots of places but didn't have a big impact when they did. Razor loves multi-position players, which means you dno't get specialists (by definition) ... and I think that is a real problem at Test level. EB is great in many ways, but he is not fast - seems to struggle to run at times - and I don't think is quick enough to be a 7 in Tests. Obviously Razor and Ryan disagree with me though.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
I think they will go with Finau with EB in the squad. My gut feeling is they are basically conservative. Seems to me picking Savea at 7 gives them more options. Would he be the best 7 of all the options? Probably is or in top 2 or 3. And has that experience and mana.
As to Sititi at 8 in ABs-I thought he played against France and Japan there and was ok to pretty good? Hasn't been pulled in an AB game (yet).Japan was a mess and doesn't matter, and France we got beaten up a bit and was one of Sititi's lesser games. Not a big enough sample to draw any conclusions from though.
If they want to keep Sititi at 6, I wouldn't be overly surprised (but would be disappointed) given Robertson's preference if they went Sititi, Savea, Lio-Willie.
I expect Blackadder to at least make the squad, despite the weird anti feeling towards him on here. Why wouldn't he? He's an incumbent who has been injured and has come back playing really well at the business end of the season. He was picked last year despite missing most of the season through injury. The only way he doesn't make it is if they have a wholesale change of tactical thinking in the loosies. -
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
On speed of loosies, McCaw wasn't exactly a speed merchant either. More important than speed, particularly for a loosie playing the tighter role, is a big engine and great game awareness which allows them to get themselves in the right position more often than not.
True, up to a point.
Like someone said with height at the lineout - it's not an issue until it's a big issue. If you aren't fast, you start needing other players who are around you - and then that changes the balance of the trio. And if you aren't fast enough and you go up against players who are faster, that can be a real problem. Also, early McCaw was quick!
We're looking at stats when they can be misleading - part of the issue with early Hooper and with Adam Thomson were they got to lots of places but didn't have a big impact when they did. Razor loves multi-position players, which means you dno't get specialists (by definition) ... and I think that is a real problem at Test level. EB is great in many ways, but he is not fast - seems to struggle to run at times - and I don't think is quick enough to be a 7 in Tests. Obviously Razor and Ryan disagree with me though.
When I watched 34 year old McCaw in the 2015 final again a couple of years ago he still at stage looked like he had more speed off the mark compared Blackadder/Cane.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
Lio-Willie has been the most consistent performer at 8. Both sides of the ball
He's a good player but he has a carry biased game like Savea, Sititi, Lakai and Finau.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
I think they will go with Finau with EB in the squad. My gut feeling is they are basically conservative. Seems to me picking Savea at 7 gives them more options. Would he be the best 7 of all the options? Probably is or in top 2 or 3. And has that experience and mana.
As to Sititi at 8 in ABs-I thought he played against France and Japan there and was ok to pretty good? Hasn't been pulled in an AB game (yet).Japan was a mess and doesn't matter, and France we got beaten up a bit and was one of Sititi's lesser games. Not a big enough sample to draw any conclusions from though.
If they want to keep Sititi at 6, I wouldn't be overly surprised (but would be disappointed) given Robertson's preference if they went Sititi, Savea, Lio-Willie.
I expect Blackadder to at least make the squad, despite the weird anti feeling towards him on here. Why wouldn't he? He's an incumbent who has been injured and has come back playing really well at the business end of the season. He was picked last year despite missing most of the season through injury. The only way he doesn't make it is if they have a wholesale change of tactical thinking in the loosies.What's weird about pointing out that he's a limited player, a coaches favourite and someone who is EXTREMELY injury prone ?
That's not weird, that's just telling it like it is.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
On speed of loosies, McCaw wasn't exactly a speed merchant either. More important than speed, particularly for a loosie playing the tighter role, is a big engine and great game awareness which allows them to get themselves in the right position more often than not.
True, up to a point.
Like someone said with height at the lineout - it's not an issue until it's a big issue. If you aren't fast, you start needing other players who are around you - and then that changes the balance of the trio. And if you aren't fast enough and you go up against players who are faster, that can be a real problem. Also, early McCaw was quick!
We're looking at stats when they can be misleading - part of the issue with early Hooper and with Adam Thomson were they got to lots of places but didn't have a big impact when they did. Razor loves multi-position players, which means you dno't get specialists (by definition) ... and I think that is a real problem at Test level. EB is great in many ways, but he is not fast - seems to struggle to run at times - and I don't think is quick enough to be a 7 in Tests. Obviously Razor and Ryan disagree with me though.
When I watched 34 year old McCaw in the 2015 final again a couple of years ago he still at stage looked like he had more speed off the mark compared Blackadder/Cane.
Forgot to compare to Cane! Loved him - a real warrior - but not that fast and got shown up at times as a result.
7 used to be a production line for us. Are we really taking the chances on developing some talent there? Seems very conservative the last year or so (actually, late Hansen as well as Fozzie), so going back 8 years now
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This post is deleted!
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader Yeah, it is a possibility that I've been ignoring - the straight swap of Dalton for Cane and keeping Savea at 8. It did seem a bit like DP was on the outer last year though, which you wouldn't think they would do if that were the plan for this year.
They seemed very reluctant to play Savea at 7 last year, but there is a lot of evidence from this year that he's quite capable there, so I think that shifts the calculus a bit further against Dalton.
Second year blues for Sititi is something I think all of us are ignoring as he was such a highlight for us in a somewhat grim last year. He's seen as an 8 by those who have been following him from a young age, but his best AB performances so far have been at 6 - no idea what the coaches are thinking there.Sititi's best performances came at 6, but he didn't really the play the role of a 6, which is why our loosies got outplayed regardless. Balance is critical in the loosies and I don't think we should ruin that balance by trying to shoehorn both Ardie and Sititi into the starting 15. One of them on the bench would give us a huge weapon in the 2nd 40 as well.
I thought Dalts might have been on the outer last year but have seen comments that he had a hamstring injury during the EOYT which is why he didn't feature. I really hope (hoping against hope given he's an Aucklander) that they have him penciled in as their starting 7. A trio of Finau/Parker, Dalton and Savea with Sititi our weapon off the bench has a much better look than something like Blackadder, Savea, Sititi starting.
I agree with most of what you're saying there, and Ardie + Sititi does cause problems - it's just almost irrestible given their positive qualities though. A couple of points:
It would be a weapon for more like the last 15 minutes based on last year's sorry-ass bench use...
Our loosies were outplayed whether Sititi was on the field or not.
I actually feel like the bench use was a big part of our problem last year. Both SA games we were the better side for 60 minutes. Use the bench well and win them both and that season looks a whole lot better. -
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
I think they will go with Finau with EB in the squad. My gut feeling is they are basically conservative. Seems to me picking Savea at 7 gives them more options. Would he be the best 7 of all the options? Probably is or in top 2 or 3. And has that experience and mana.
As to Sititi at 8 in ABs-I thought he played against France and Japan there and was ok to pretty good? Hasn't been pulled in an AB game (yet).Japan was a mess and doesn't matter, and France we got beaten up a bit and was one of Sititi's lesser games. Not a big enough sample to draw any conclusions from though.
If they want to keep Sititi at 6, I wouldn't be overly surprised (but would be disappointed) given Robertson's preference if they went Sititi, Savea, Lio-Willie.
I expect Blackadder to at least make the squad, despite the weird anti feeling towards him on here. Why wouldn't he? He's an incumbent who has been injured and has come back playing really well at the business end of the season. He was picked last year despite missing most of the season through injury. The only way he doesn't make it is if they have a wholesale change of tactical thinking in the loosies.What's weird about pointing out that he's a limited player, a coaches favourite and someone who is EXTREMELY injury prone ?
That's not weird, that's just telling it like it is.
Injury prone, absolutely yes.
He's a very good player - like all players he has relative strengths and weaknesses - but some on here won't acknowledge anything good about him, and rubbish him regardless of how well he plays. He has been really good the last two weeks.
Which coach? He made the ABs in 2021. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
I think they will go with Finau with EB in the squad. My gut feeling is they are basically conservative. Seems to me picking Savea at 7 gives them more options. Would he be the best 7 of all the options? Probably is or in top 2 or 3. And has that experience and mana.
As to Sititi at 8 in ABs-I thought he played against France and Japan there and was ok to pretty good? Hasn't been pulled in an AB game (yet).Japan was a mess and doesn't matter, and France we got beaten up a bit and was one of Sititi's lesser games. Not a big enough sample to draw any conclusions from though.
If they want to keep Sititi at 6, I wouldn't be overly surprised (but would be disappointed) given Robertson's preference if they went Sititi, Savea, Lio-Willie.
I expect Blackadder to at least make the squad, despite the weird anti feeling towards him on here. Why wouldn't he? He's an incumbent who has been injured and has come back playing really well at the business end of the season. He was picked last year despite missing most of the season through injury. The only way he doesn't make it is if they have a wholesale change of tactical thinking in the loosies.What's weird about pointing out that he's a limited player, a coaches favourite and someone who is EXTREMELY injury prone ?
That's not weird, that's just telling it like it is.
Injury prone, absolutely yes.
He's a very good player - like all players he has relative strengths and weaknesses - but some on here won't acknowledge anything good about him, and rubbish him regardless of how well he plays. He has been really good the last two weeks.
Which coach? He made the ABs in 2021.Look I agree that he is a very good player when he's fully fit and in form but his injuries are too disruptive for the actual ROI.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
I think they will go with Finau with EB in the squad. My gut feeling is they are basically conservative. Seems to me picking Savea at 7 gives them more options. Would he be the best 7 of all the options? Probably is or in top 2 or 3. And has that experience and mana.
As to Sititi at 8 in ABs-I thought he played against France and Japan there and was ok to pretty good? Hasn't been pulled in an AB game (yet).Japan was a mess and doesn't matter, and France we got beaten up a bit and was one of Sititi's lesser games. Not a big enough sample to draw any conclusions from though.
If they want to keep Sititi at 6, I wouldn't be overly surprised (but would be disappointed) given Robertson's preference if they went Sititi, Savea, Lio-Willie.
I expect Blackadder to at least make the squad, despite the weird anti feeling towards him on here. Why wouldn't he? He's an incumbent who has been injured and has come back playing really well at the business end of the season. He was picked last year despite missing most of the season through injury. The only way he doesn't make it is if they have a wholesale change of tactical thinking in the loosies.What's weird about pointing out that he's a limited player, a coaches favourite and someone who is EXTREMELY injury prone ?
That's not weird, that's just telling it like it is
Injury prone, absolutely yes.
He's a very good player - like all players he has relative strengths and weaknesses - but some on here won't acknowledge anything good about him, and rubbish him regardless of how well he plays. He has been really good the last two weeks.
Which coach? He made the ABs in 2021.Look I agree that he is a very good player when he's fully fit and in form but his injuries are too disruptive for the actual ROI.
That I can't really argue with. But it is a very harsh approach to take to a player, and guys like Richard Kahui have been right at the right time to make major contributions in the past.
Injuries are less disruptive if you have another player who can fill a similar role - which is basically the medium sized high volume ruck and tackle job - and I think that is where we actually do have some depth in Dalton and Jacobson (I'm not sure the medium sized worker is what we need, but Robertson seems to think so). -
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
I think they will go with Finau with EB in the squad. My gut feeling is they are basically conservative. Seems to me picking Savea at 7 gives them more options. Would he be the best 7 of all the options? Probably is or in top 2 or 3. And has that experience and mana.
As to Sititi at 8 in ABs-I thought he played against France and Japan there and was ok to pretty good? Hasn't been pulled in an AB game (yet).Japan was a mess and doesn't matter, and France we got beaten up a bit and was one of Sititi's lesser games. Not a big enough sample to draw any conclusions from though.
If they want to keep Sititi at 6, I wouldn't be overly surprised (but would be disappointed) given Robertson's preference if they went Sititi, Savea, Lio-Willie.
I expect Blackadder to at least make the squad, despite the weird anti feeling towards him on here. Why wouldn't he? He's an incumbent who has been injured and has come back playing really well at the business end of the season. He was picked last year despite missing most of the season through injury. The only way he doesn't make it is if they have a wholesale change of tactical thinking in the loosies.What's weird about pointing out that he's a limited player, a coaches favourite and someone who is EXTREMELY injury prone ?
That's not weird, that's just telling it like it is.
Injury prone, absolutely yes.
He's a very good player - like all players he has relative strengths and weaknesses - but some on here won't acknowledge anything good about him, and rubbish him regardless of how well he plays. He has been really good the last two weeks.
Which coach? He made the ABs in 2021.Look I agree that he is a very good player when he's fully fit and in form but his injuries are too disruptive for the actual ROI.
There seems to have been a general change of tune on here when it comes to EB being injury prone and subsequent squad selection. I flagged this worry leading up to the last world cup and questioned whether he should be selected because of it. The general response was that selections shouldn't be based around whether a player was likely to get injured or not.
For what it's worth, I think the selectors should move on from players like EB, Ennor and Lord until they show they can string a decent number of games together.
