Springboks v All Blacks
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@pakman that's why I qualified Ofa with the "maaybee". I can't really see it but given they're trying to get him to cover both sides they may (may) want to try that for development.
But yeah, nah.
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@cgrant said in Springboks v All Blacks, whos in?:
The Springboks won't be easy meat this time. They are always hard to beat in their garden.
Yes they will.
Not any more.Retrograde step to go back to the first XV out of "fear factor".
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@cgrant said in Springboks v All Blacks, whos in?:
Moody Coles Franks
Whitelock Retallick
Kaino Savea Read
Smith Barrett
Savea Crotty ALB Dagg
SmithI think that's close to what they will go for.
Maybe Moody gets dropped for Crockett after that silly YC?
I also think they are planning on starting Faumuina for this game after they left him out of the 23 against the Argies -
Well, Liam Napier in Stuff has already selected his left winger:
"Other than botching a try in the second half Julian Savea was superb against the Pumas, beating his man regularly and making metres at will."
Need to watch the game again but my impression was that Savea got a lot of good ball and really didn't do much with it. The metres Napier's stats say he made were due to other players giving him plenty of space.
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I don't think Savea had a huge amount of space. He was given the ball behind the gain line a few times so was able to get up a head of steam, but there was never any clear overlaps. The bar is set bloody high for him - if he has 3m to work up a head of steam he's expected to stampede over the defense every time. If all he does it make 5-10m that's a failure.
He wasn't at his best, and the try he botched was frustrating to watch, but he wasn't bad either. "Superb" is taking it too far though, I'd say he was "solid".
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@Tregaskis said in Springboks v All Blacks, whos in?:
Well, Liam Napier in Stuff has already selected his left winger:
"Other than botching a try in the second half Julian Savea was superb against the Pumas, beating his man regularly and making metres at will."
Need to watch the game again but my impression was that Savea got a lot of good ball and really didn't do much with it. The metres Napier's stats say he made were due to other players giving him plenty of space.
On Saturday night, in the lead up to the NRL grand final, I watched 35 year old footage¹ of Parramatta's Eric Grothe running 40 odd metres at pace, changing direction and switching the ball from left to right arm four times to fend or bump off five tacklers with good technique. It was instinctive.
After watching on Sunday and reading to remind myself of Julian Savea's history I am not convinced of his further entitlement.
He is well able to charge along a straight line, run over tacklers and swerve a bit but he needs to be competent in much more than that, as were Doug Howlett, Joe, Sivi, Hosea and Rico. There is something wrong there - after NZ secondary schools in 2008, then NZ Under 20s, NZ Sevens; seven years with the Wellington Lions, six years with the Hurricanes and four with the All Blacks you'd reckon several of those top end coaches have told him, coached him and drilled him to switch the ball when he fends and bumps. Perhaps he knows better than them or simply forgets to remember.
I say he has had time and attention enough already. There are others worthy of a go.
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IMO - Naholo is far more dangerous than Savea. Quicker and lower center of gravity makes it harder to bring him down.
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So Dagg is a lock at 14? While I appreciate his aerial skills and that he fits the Jane/Skudder mould of FB/Winger. he is not the winger you want scoring in the corner. Funny how one of his best attributes, his boot, is wasted on the wing. I'd break with conventional wisdom and have Savea and Naholo play.
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Full strength team will be picked for SA.
They just got a needed boost of confidence over the weekend - now with the opportunity to put back to back wins together @ home, where the next game is against us, we embarrassed them last time, needless to say they're gonna be fired up as fuck.After this weekend, Crotty/ALB is our best midfield available.
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@broughie said in Springboks v All Blacks, whos in?:
So Dagg is a lock at 14? While I appreciate his aerial skills and that he fits the Jane/Skudder mould of FB/Winger. he is not the winger you want scoring in the corner. Funny how one of his best attributes, his boot, is wasted on the wing. I'd break with conventional wisdom and have Savea and Naholo play.
Have you not seen Savea play recently? He doesn't have aerial skills, he doesn't have a boot, and on recent evidence he is not the winger you want scoring in the corner. How long do we wait for him to come right?
Liam Napier clearly was watching old tapes of Savea. He had one run in space and was tackled by the first defender he came to - he used to have power, strength and guile, sadly used to are the operative words.
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Yeah big forward pack plus Ardie
Nugget at half. Dagg on a wing to field Morning stains kicks and the previous incumbant winger Naholo.Pat T and Sammy to start with BBBR on the bench if resting is so important, which it is.
Todd on the reserves to counter Louw for 80 mins -
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@Nepia said in Springboks v All Blacks, whos in?:
@broughie said in Springboks v All Blacks, whos in?:
So Dagg is a lock at 14? While I appreciate his aerial skills and that he fits the Jane/Skudder mould of FB/Winger. he is not the winger you want scoring in the corner. Funny how one of his best attributes, his boot, is wasted on the wing. I'd break with conventional wisdom and have Savea and Naholo play.
Have you not seen Savea play recently? He doesn't have aerial skills, he doesn't have a boot, and on recent evidence he is not the winger you want scoring in the corner. How long do we wait for him to come right?
Liam Napier clearly was watching old tapes of Savea. He had one run in space and was tackled by the first defender he came to - he used to have power, strength and guile, sadly used to are the operative words.
I don't think he played badly Saturday. He did not have much space and he had the ball in his wrong arm. Not sure this is the norm for him. Given the same circumstances Dagg would not have come close to scoring. Not homing for Savea. I think Nahalo has been the form winger outside of fielding high balls. I just think that when teams are game planning they are more likely to put a circle around Savea, at least as an offensive threat. Poise under a high ball a liability. At least Savea does not have that God awful goose step that Dagg persists with.
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@MajorRage said in Springboks v All Blacks, whos in?:
@Nepia He hasn't done bad this RC, has he? Yeah, he's not the star performer, but he's picked up a few tries, made some decent runs and played ok.
We already have 2 fullbacks in the back 3, I think the balance back there is ok.
@broughie The Savea of old would have scored that try easily and there was clearly space - he just fluffed it and the ball in the wrong hand shouldn't be dismissed off hand.
I think that Savea gets held to a different standard to most players. I don't think he's been the best wing in the country for over 12 months now but he keeps getting selected on his past glories and the hope he'll come right. He's had one standout game in this RC and one in the World Cup but other than that he's just taking up space.
He's awesome when in form, but I stop kidding myself he was (in form) a long time ago.
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@Nepia you seem to be on a bit of crusade to prove Savea is shit or god knows what. I call bullshit. He has easily justified his selection this RC with some very good games and some good tries that were very similar to the one he didn't get in this game. Funnily enough Dagg got bundled into touch on the other wing too. They aren't the first and won't be the last to not score a tight one or carry the ball in the wrong hand.
The other point is that Savea hasn't been selected because there is some conspiracy. He has been selected because the guys who are challenging him for his spot keep getting broken.
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@Bones said in Springboks v All Blacks, whos in?:
Wow, Savea a waste of space? Going on his form in the RC I wholeheartedly disagree.
Edit: And to think that, you've either got something against him or you've lost the plot. Or both.
I didn't say waste, I said taking up.
I have got something against him - I've just outlined it over two posts, he's a shadow of his former self, he's slower, less agile and misses chances he'd have walked in a couple of seasons ago. His form is barely better than when his franchise coach dropped him for the crucial matches of their best ever season.
@pukunui I'm not on a crusade, I just don't think he's been playing very well. I'm not going to pretend I think any different because you and MR think different and Bones thinks I've lost the plot. I also never said there was a conspiracy, Hansen clearly likes him and he backs players he likes.
I'm actually genuinely surprised how many people are going to the mattresses for Savea as he's hardly been a standout performer in a long time. You'd think I have issues with Ben Smith such is the white knighting that's going on here.
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@Nepia Here you go, some stats for this guy who's only taking up space.
Currently tied 1st for tries, equal with Ben Smith and Crotty.
Shockingly, he's way down at 8th on the carries list with only 42. Oh but that's odd as he tops the metres list with 378 (next best is Isa with 361).
Top on clean breaks with 11, (Ben Smith 10, Isa, 8 ).
4th in Defenders beaten with 16 (Smith 20, Isa 19, Barrett 17).
This stats are from the Herald, so not sure how accurate, but hey, seem to paint a picture of a guy doing something right, even if he's not in the form which might get him compared to Jonah.
Stuff
