All Blacks 2025
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2025:
I like this tour, unsure how this can make someone think it shouldn’t be referred to as a grand slam.
Because we're playing Ireland in the USA, not at their house. That's the only difference. And then it's perspective as to whether you think that disqualifies or not
My perspective is it does. For SH teams touring, part of the difficulty is playing those teams in front of their home grounds and I can't think of a single example in history where a SH side has claimed a Grand Slam by playing elsewhere.
Let alone on a field that isn't big enough to qualify.
1995 RWC
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
This is how far NZR have fallen; calling this tour a Grand Slam
How is it not? (Apart from it's not a GS until we winter all ... )
Winter is coming?
Fat fingers and autocorrect
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@ARHS said in All Blacks 2025:
I think it's a bloody disgrace that we care so little about our fans and supporting countries that we can play more matches in USA than against all second tier nations combined.
So when everyone bitches about why some players not getting developed and enough opportunities this year, and why the All Black brand is going down the gurgler, just think of the Fijians, Samoans, Tongans, Japanese, Georgians and Italians who are being reminded of just how valued they are.
Who is making all these decisions???Principles are fine when you can afford them.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
Principles are fine when you can afford them.
"These are my principles. If you don’t like them I have others."
Attributed to Groucho Marx but contested: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/09/groucho-principles/ -
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Darren Putting aside the ground can't meet the requirements, I believe outside of tournaments that they should be held in the country of one of the participants.
I genuinely don't see why Americans should get to see this fixture over Kiwis and the Irish.
What annoys me is the "milking" of a brand thats in danger of becoming irrelevant.
It's all well and good selling out to Ineos, Altrad and playing games in the U.S if you are the "Harlem Globetrotters" of your sport. But we are now losing regularly to France, Ireland and South Africa and even Argentina and still strutting around like we are the cock of the walk.
We could do with winning the odd tournament to justify our lofty sense of self worth these days.
The modern day iteration of the Allblacks are all fur coat and no knickers.
Winning is all that matters and the rest is superfluous.
The first Chicago expedition was the start of the current malaise.
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@ARHS said in All Blacks 2025:
I think it's a bloody disgrace that we care so little about our fans and supporting countries that we can play more matches in USA than against all second tier nations combined.
So when everyone bitches about why some players not getting developed and enough opportunities this year, and why the All Black brand is going down the gurgler, just think of the Fijians, Samoans, Tongans, Japanese, Georgians and Italians who are being reminded of just how valued they are.
Who is making all these decisions???The early season "cobweb blowout" against our pacific brethren historically allowed us to blood new players and more importantly start the year with a W in the ledger.
Foster and Robertson started their seasons/tenures on the back foot and were playing "defence" from the get go because we were coming cold straight from flag footie (super rugby) into playing Ireland 3 times , or England twice before we had even got to the Rugby Championship.
It's no wonder they got so conservative at the selection table.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Wait (a few) people are getting upset about the All Blacks playing a test in the United States of America.
Hang on until they find out where's the 2031 Rugby World Cup going be hosted.
Yep sparky, FFS we can play on any field anywhere in world. If we got opposition and that's where they want to play us good as. I not sure if some realise that when if play Fiji or Ireland in USA, there are actually 2 teams not playing at home or at opponents ground , just like WC (and the Nations Cup ,when it happens no doubt). I don't get the shit it hurts brand etc, and wouldn't mind betting a good few other nations would be more than happy to make extra coin doing same thing. We live in a country of a 5 mill, so if we can make a bit extra by playing an extra game (as we often do and Ireland are doing) go for it. I suspect a few don't understand what the word professional in professional sports mean (clue it's money)
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2025:
I like this tour, unsure how this can make someone think it shouldn’t be referred to as a grand slam.
Because we're playing Ireland in the USA, not at their house. That's the only difference. And then it's perspective as to whether you think that disqualifies or not
We did a grand slam in 3 weeks against the home nations in 1995. On saffa soil.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Darren Putting aside the ground can't meet the requirements, I believe outside of tournaments that they should be held in the country of one of the participants.
I genuinely don't see why Americans should get to see this fixture over Kiwis and the Irish.
What annoys me is the "milking" of a brand thats in danger of becoming irrelevant.
It's all well and good selling out to Ineos, Altrad and playing games in the U.S if you are the "Harlem Globetrotters" of your sport. But we are now losing regularly to France, Ireland and South Africa and even Argentina and still strutting around like we are the cock of the walk.
We could do with winning the odd tournament to justify our lofty sense of self worth these days.
The modern day iteration of the Allblacks are all fur coat and no knickers.
Winning is all that matters and the rest is superfluous.
The first Chicago expedition was the start of the current malaise.
I think it is more commercial realities where the AB brand is the growth engine for NZR.
Yes, you are correct - the continued success/Brand of ABs/NZR requires success. Ideally at a world cup level.
I dont think it is becoming irrelevant, its amazing how quickly the aura is restored after a period of non domination of the sport - which we are in now. Besting the boks at home would help of course and is a must for a number of reasons
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i'll admit i always considered beating the them all at their home grounds as being part of a Grand Slam
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Wait (a few) people are getting upset about the All Blacks playing a test in the United States of America.
Hang on until they find out where's the 2031 Rugby World Cup going be hosted.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
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@antipodean No, I'm expressing an opinion.
It's a Rugby Forum. You (or I for that matter) are going to find different opinions here.
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For those talking about the 95 WC, this is on the ABs website for this upcoming "Grand Slam" tour:
"While not officially recognised as a Grand Slam tour, the 1995 All Blacks beat Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England at the Rugby World Cup in South Africa."
All Blacks 2025 Grand Slam northern tour schedule confirmed
An historic and rare Grand Slam tour will bookend the All Blacks 13-Test 2025 schedule with Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales part of an epic end of year tour.
The obvious reason for 95 not being officially recognised is that we were not playing them in their own back yards, so it's not the same. But for this tour, we have decided to allow one game to be played at a neutral venue and still claim it's a Grand Slam.
I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand here. Everybody understands the commercial realities for exhibition matches like this, so that part is not up for debate. But to call it a Grand Slam when one of the toughest matches is at a neutral venue on a field that doesn't even meet the minimum requirements is just silly.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
For those talking about the 95 WC, this is on the ABs website for this upcoming "Grand Slam" tour:
"While not officially recognised as a Grand Slam tour, the 1995 All Blacks beat Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England at the Rugby World Cup in South Africa."
All Blacks 2025 Grand Slam northern tour schedule confirmed
An historic and rare Grand Slam tour will bookend the All Blacks 13-Test 2025 schedule with Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales part of an epic end of year tour.
The obvious reason for 95 not being officially recognised is that we were not playing them in their own back yards, so it's not the same. But for this tour, we have decided to allow one game to be played at a neutral venue and still claim it's a Grand Slam.
I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand here. Everybody understands the commercial realities for exhibition matches like this, so that part is not up for debate. But to call it a Grand Slam when one of the toughest matches is at a neutral venue on a field that doesn't even meet the minimum requirements is just silly.
You're not letting this go are you ?
Surely the teams being played is the main factor and the venue is an afterthought, especially in this day and age ?
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@MN5 what do you mean "in this day and age?" Are you implying that in the modern game home advantage is not a factor anymore?
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 what do you mean "in this day and age?" Are you implying that in the modern game home advantage is not a factor anymore?
Absolutely not, just pointing out that games are played at neutral venues far more often.
You know I'm usually a big fan of what you post I just find it amusing you're making such a stand about this
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And of course I'm not letting this go, nobody else has, and it's Friday, my motivation to work is low, so starting meaningless fights on the Fern is the best way to pass the time
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
And of course I'm not letting this go, nobody else has, and it's Friday, my motivation to work is low, so starting meaningless fights on the Fern is the best way to pass the time
Fair enough.
Razor picking Ethan Blackadder and David Havilii and ignoring Akira Ioane and Hoskins Sotutu was a coaching masterstroke.
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