All Blacks 2025
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
In his first super season Ice was freakish at FB for the Canes. He probably should have stayed at FB for longer, and should have stayed in Wellington
Also magic at 12 for the Blues when he got a chance there.
He destroyed the Bulls (I think it was) in SA with his running and passing game. He waa much better there than at 13 IMO.
Your point is fair though, had they asked him to focus on one position, he would likely have had a better career.
Toeava was basically David Havili with impact.
Instant ban.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
Why did Piutau end up leaving NZ? I seem to recall he was an absolute stud.
Was it just a case of the ABs being stacked with back 3 talent or did he fall out with the coaching staff?
The story circulating when he went was, he wanted the money to help out family.
Don't know if there any other reasons, or how true any of it was/is. Let's face it it all specualtion, only he can really tell us.He was offered the highlest pay in rugby at the time, no brainer for some one wanting to set up his entire family
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
In his first super season Ice was freakish at FB for the Canes. He probably should have stayed at FB for longer, and should have stayed in Wellington
Also magic at 12 for the Blues when he got a chance there.
He destroyed the Bulls (I think it was) in SA with his running and passing game. He waa much better there than at 13 IMO.
Your point is fair though, had they asked him to focus on one position, he would likely have had a better career.
Toeava was basically David Havili with impact.
Davidav-ili.
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I think part of the Toeava hate came from him becoming synomous with the All Blacks ability to choke on the world stage. The absolute "possum in the headlights" look of panic on his face as he got subbed onto the field in that infamous 1/4 final against France made him the poster boy for All Black mental fraility.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
Why did Piutau end up leaving NZ? I seem to recall he was an absolute stud.
Was it just a case of the ABs being stacked with back 3 talent or did he fall out with the coaching staff?
Was basically the highest paid player in the world for a good 5 year period. Ulster, Bristol and Wasps paid him top dollar.
And he also left prematurely, which wasnt the norm.
He had loads of good rugby left in him.
Thats why I was comparing Toeava to him.
Charles eked out a great career, albeit not on these shores.
Toeava was a gun but his body failed him. Could have been an all time great.
Could do it all (and maybe that was part of the problem).
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
Why did Piutau end up leaving NZ? I seem to recall he was an absolute stud.
Was it just a case of the ABs being stacked with back 3 talent or did he fall out with the coaching staff?
The story circulating when he went was, he wanted the money to help out family.
Don't know if there any other reasons, or how true any of it was/is. Let's face it it all specualtion, only he can really tell us.Seemingly he had a load of them suckling on the tit.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
Why did Piutau end up leaving NZ? I seem to recall he was an absolute stud.
Was it just a case of the ABs being stacked with back 3 talent or did he fall out with the coaching staff?
Was basically the highest paid player in the world for a good 5 year period. Ulster, Bristol and Wasps paid him top dollar.
And he also left prematurely, which wasnt the norm.
He had loads of good rugby left in him.
Thats why I was comparing Toeava to him.
Charles eked out a great career, albeit not on these shores.
Toeava was a gun but his body failed him. Could have been an all time great.
Could do it all (and maybe that was part of the problem).
His ommision from the 2015 RWC was contentious wasnt it? Because I think he did not leave for the NH until after the tournament.
Obviously Ben Smith & Savea were nailed down starters but I think Naholo was coming off an injury and NMS was like an up and comer but a bit of an unknown quantity.
I could be wrong on the above but I just remember thinking it was crazy that such a talent could not get into the squad.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
Why did Piutau end up leaving NZ? I seem to recall he was an absolute stud.
Was it just a case of the ABs being stacked with back 3 talent or did he fall out with the coaching staff?
Was basically the highest paid player in the world for a good 5 year period. Ulster, Bristol and Wasps paid him top dollar.
And he also left prematurely, which wasnt the norm.
He had loads of good rugby left in him.
Thats why I was comparing Toeava to him.
Charles eked out a great career, albeit not on these shores.
Toeava was a gun but his body failed him. Could have been an all time great.
Could do it all (and maybe that was part of the problem).
His ommision from the 2015 RWC was contentious wasnt it? Because I think he did not leave for the NH until after the tournament.
Obviously Ben Smith & Savea were nailed down starters but I think Naholo was coming off an injury and NMS was like an up and comer but a bit of an unknown quantity.
I could be wrong on the above but I just remember thinking it was crazy that such a talent could not get into the squad.
He announced he was leaving in March 2015
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
Bridge had deceptive pace.
Well, the idea he had pace sure deceived me...
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
Why did Piutau end up leaving NZ? I seem to recall he was an absolute stud.
Was it just a case of the ABs being stacked with back 3 talent or did he fall out with the coaching staff?
Was basically the highest paid player in the world for a good 5 year period. Ulster, Bristol and Wasps paid him top dollar.
And he also left prematurely, which wasnt the norm.
He had loads of good rugby left in him.
Thats why I was comparing Toeava to him.
Charles eked out a great career, albeit not on these shores.
Toeava was a gun but his body failed him. Could have been an all time great.
Could do it all (and maybe that was part of the problem).
His ommision from the 2015 RWC was contentious wasnt it? Because I think he did not leave for the NH until after the tournament.
Obviously Ben Smith & Savea were nailed down starters but I think Naholo was coming off an injury and NMS was like an up and comer but a bit of an unknown quantity.
I could be wrong on the above but I just remember thinking it was crazy that such a talent could not get into the squad.
Looked up his Wikipedia and the comment is
He was not selected for the 2015 World Cup, a factor in his decision to move to play club rugby in Europe.[8]
If I recall it was the other way around: not selected as had signed offshore. The signing being the deciding factor when picking between talented players.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
Bridge had deceptive pace.
Well, the idea he had pace sure deceived me...
Like I said…..deceiving. Bridge was like a slower ball in cricket.
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damn this thread is depressing....the 2025 All Blacks thread has been full of chat about Toeava, Piutau, Bridge and Havili....the future is bright
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
damn this thread is depressing....the 2025 All Blacks thread has been full of chat about Toeava, Piutau, Bridge and Havili....the future is bright
At least one of those names is a nailed-on selection this year....
Honestly, now the feet-finding phase is over, can we start giving new players more game time and start building a midfield?
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
Why did Piutau end up leaving NZ? I seem to recall he was an absolute stud.
Was it just a case of the ABs being stacked with back 3 talent or did he fall out with the coaching staff?
Was basically the highest paid player in the world for a good 5 year period. Ulster, Bristol and Wasps paid him top dollar.
And he also left prematurely, which wasnt the norm.
He had loads of good rugby left in him.
Thats why I was comparing Toeava to him.
Charles eked out a great career, albeit not on these shores.
Toeava was a gun but his body failed him. Could have been an all time great.
Could do it all (and maybe that was part of the problem).
His ommision from the 2015 RWC was contentious wasnt it? Because I think he did not leave for the NH until after the tournament.
Obviously Ben Smith & Savea were nailed down starters but I think Naholo was coming off an injury and NMS was like an up and comer but a bit of an unknown quantity.
I could be wrong on the above but I just remember thinking it was crazy that such a talent could not get into the squad.
Looked up his Wikipedia and the comment is
He was not selected for the 2015 World Cup, a factor in his decision to move to play club rugby in Europe.[8]
If I recall it was the other way around: not selected as had signed offshore. The signing being the deciding factor when picking between talented players.
This.
"Does it make him ineligible for the World Cup? No it doesn't," Hansen said, "but it does make it harder for him."
"He's going to have to play really, really well. We've got a duty to pick the best team but at the same time if two guys are vying for one spot then things like commitment and experience come into it.
"Not only are you picking for today but you're also picking for tomorrow. That's what we've done with him for three years."
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2025:
Aaron Smith sees Joseph Manu as a future All Black
World Cup-winning scrum-half Aaron Smith believes that his new Toyota Verblitz teammate Joseph Manu is an All Black in the making.Legendary All Black Smith, 36, who is in his second season in Japan with Steve Hansen and Ian Foster’s Toyota, was joined in Aichi in the summer by rugby league convert...
Maybe if he converted a few years ago.
Still only 28, no reason why he couldn't get another half a decade in if he's a hard worker.
Oh, I agree that he could have 5 plus years in Union.
But he is 28 now and won’t make a super rugby debut until he is 30 at the earliest so I think there would be a reluctance from AB selectors to pick someone like that
If he's a proper athlete ala SBW and better than the rest I don't see why not.
I think he's a potentially a better bet than Benji and RTS who made the change late in their careers. Of the three I think he's more suited to rugby and like all I guess it depends on how he transitions back.
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
If he was smart, he would sign for the crusaders then!
Nah, he should skip that and just go straight to the Chiefs to become a proper rugby player.
Nah ("if he's a proper athlete ala SBW") he should just skip that and go to the Blues like what SBW did
This is not the 1980s. It’s not like all league converts are athletes compared to the weedy union players. They’re all athletes now.
I point you to my use of ""....
Aw ok, my bad.
All this ‘SBW is such an amazing athlete’ compared to everyone else is just nonsense
Sonny Bill was an amazing athlete though when compared to any one, be it union or league. I’m not a fan boy by any stretch and I thought the ABs used him well as the occasional starter but more impactfully in that bench role.
There were not many players that were able to produce at the highest level with his combination of skills and physicality.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2025:
Aaron Smith sees Joseph Manu as a future All Black
World Cup-winning scrum-half Aaron Smith believes that his new Toyota Verblitz teammate Joseph Manu is an All Black in the making.Legendary All Black Smith, 36, who is in his second season in Japan with Steve Hansen and Ian Foster’s Toyota, was joined in Aichi in the summer by rugby league convert...
Maybe if he converted a few years ago.
Still only 28, no reason why he couldn't get another half a decade in if he's a hard worker.
Oh, I agree that he could have 5 plus years in Union.
But he is 28 now and won’t make a super rugby debut until he is 30 at the earliest so I think there would be a reluctance from AB selectors to pick someone like that
If he's a proper athlete ala SBW and better than the rest I don't see why not.
I think he's a potentially a better bet than Benji and RTS who made the change late in their careers. Of the three I think he's more suited to rugby and like all I guess it depends on how he transitions back.
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
If he was smart, he would sign for the crusaders then!
Nah, he should skip that and just go straight to the Chiefs to become a proper rugby player.
Nah ("if he's a proper athlete ala SBW") he should just skip that and go to the Blues like what SBW did
This is not the 1980s. It’s not like all league converts are athletes compared to the weedy union players. They’re all athletes now.
I point you to my use of ""....
Aw ok, my bad.
All this ‘SBW is such an amazing athlete’ compared to everyone else is just nonsense
Sonny Bill was an amazing athlete though when compared to any one, be it union or league. I’m not a fan boy by any stretch and I thought the ABs used him well as the occasional starter but more impactfully in that bench role.
There were not many players that were able to produce at the highest level with his combination of skills and physicality.
Despite all he achieved, I actually think we never saw the best of him. I reckon the injuries and chopping and changing between union and league held him back a little.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
Why did Piutau end up leaving NZ? I seem to recall he was an absolute stud.
Was it just a case of the ABs being stacked with back 3 talent or did he fall out with the coaching staff?
Was basically the highest paid player in the world for a good 5 year period. Ulster, Bristol and Wasps paid him top dollar.
And he also left prematurely, which wasnt the norm.
He had loads of good rugby left in him.
Thats why I was comparing Toeava to him.
Charles eked out a great career, albeit not on these shores.
Toeava was a gun but his body failed him. Could have been an all time great.
Could do it all (and maybe that was part of the problem).
His ommision from the 2015 RWC was contentious wasnt it? Because I think he did not leave for the NH until after the tournament.
Obviously Ben Smith & Savea were nailed down starters but I think Naholo was coming off an injury and NMS was like an up and comer but a bit of an unknown quantity.
I could be wrong on the above but I just remember thinking it was crazy that such a talent could not get into the squad.
Looked up his Wikipedia and the comment is
He was not selected for the 2015 World Cup, a factor in his decision to move to play club rugby in Europe.[8]
If I recall it was the other way around: not selected as had signed offshore. The signing being the deciding factor when picking between talented players.
It was the other way round. He was persona non grata after announcing his impending flounce.
He was mustard against the French in 2013.
Very physical player. Had the proverbial good shoulder on him and a great offloading game.
Safe as houses under the high ball too.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2025:
Aaron Smith sees Joseph Manu as a future All Black
World Cup-winning scrum-half Aaron Smith believes that his new Toyota Verblitz teammate Joseph Manu is an All Black in the making.Legendary All Black Smith, 36, who is in his second season in Japan with Steve Hansen and Ian Foster’s Toyota, was joined in Aichi in the summer by rugby league convert...
Maybe if he converted a few years ago.
Still only 28, no reason why he couldn't get another half a decade in if he's a hard worker.
Oh, I agree that he could have 5 plus years in Union.
But he is 28 now and won’t make a super rugby debut until he is 30 at the earliest so I think there would be a reluctance from AB selectors to pick someone like that
If he's a proper athlete ala SBW and better than the rest I don't see why not.
I think he's a potentially a better bet than Benji and RTS who made the change late in their careers. Of the three I think he's more suited to rugby and like all I guess it depends on how he transitions back.
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
If he was smart, he would sign for the crusaders then!
Nah, he should skip that and just go straight to the Chiefs to become a proper rugby player.
Nah ("if he's a proper athlete ala SBW") he should just skip that and go to the Blues like what SBW did
This is not the 1980s. It’s not like all league converts are athletes compared to the weedy union players. They’re all athletes now.
I point you to my use of ""....
Aw ok, my bad.
All this ‘SBW is such an amazing athlete’ compared to everyone else is just nonsense
Sonny Bill was an amazing athlete though when compared to any one, be it union or league. I’m not a fan boy by any stretch and I thought the ABs used him well as the occasional starter but more impactfully in that bench role.
There were not many players that were able to produce at the highest level with his combination of skills and physicality.
yeah SBW was freakish, but the ABs didn't get the prime version.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
Why did Piutau end up leaving NZ? I seem to recall he was an absolute stud.
Was it just a case of the ABs being stacked with back 3 talent or did he fall out with the coaching staff?
Was basically the highest paid player in the world for a good 5 year period. Ulster, Bristol and Wasps paid him top dollar.
And he also left prematurely, which wasnt the norm.
He had loads of good rugby left in him.
Thats why I was comparing Toeava to him.
Charles eked out a great career, albeit not on these shores.
Toeava was a gun but his body failed him. Could have been an all time great.
Could do it all (and maybe that was part of the problem).
His ommision from the 2015 RWC was contentious wasnt it? Because I think he did not leave for the NH until after the tournament.
Obviously Ben Smith & Savea were nailed down starters but I think Naholo was coming off an injury and NMS was like an up and comer but a bit of an unknown quantity.
I could be wrong on the above but I just remember thinking it was crazy that such a talent could not get into the squad.
I remember talk from the coaches , something about his skillset , they thought he played left better than right ,
Jules was the incumbent there and was automatic , and they picked NMS and Naholo to have a shoot out it to play right ,thats how i remember their reasoning ,
But yeah a great talent and one that got away , I remember the omission of Dagg at the time to be a bigger shock to most though
