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England vs Springboks

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England vs Springboks
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  • BonesB Offline
    BonesB Offline
    Bones
    replied to Catogrande on last edited by
    #238

    @Catogrande surely Farrell would love to return home?

    As an AB fan, that would worry me.

    CatograndeC 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Billy WebbB Offline
    Billy WebbB Offline
    Billy Webb
    replied to Catogrande on last edited by
    #239

    @Catogrande said in England vs Springboks:

    @Billy-Webb

    OK, first question. In truth there aren’t that many playing abroad that would realistically be in contention. Jack Willis, Henry Arundell and Farrell. The former two stayed over in France due to being overlooked and or messed around by England and Farrell’ issues are fairly clear, plus he’s near the end of his International career. I can’t think of too many more tbh.

    Playing Marcus Smith at 10, with Farrell at 12 would be a step up though surely?

    CatograndeC 1 Reply Last reply
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  • CatograndeC Offline
    CatograndeC Offline
    Catogrande
    replied to Bones on last edited by
    #240

    @Bones

    I’m not so sure, but it depends on how much he and his family are enjoying life in France. There is of course the money side of things and who in England has room within the salary cap to cope. More importantly though is that part of the reason he made the move was for the well being of his family and himself. He was getting a lot of online hate, which is despicable. Odd isn’t it that when someone is personally targeted and there are clear consequences for that person, the police are nowhere to be seen..

    BonesB 1 Reply Last reply
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  • CatograndeC Offline
    CatograndeC Offline
    Catogrande
    replied to Billy Webb on last edited by
    #241

    @Billy-Webb said in England vs Springboks:

    @Catogrande said in England vs Springboks:

    @Billy-Webb

    OK, first question. In truth there aren’t that many playing abroad that would realistically be in contention. Jack Willis, Henry Arundell and Farrell. The former two stayed over in France due to being overlooked and or messed around by England and Farrell’ issues are fairly clear, plus he’s near the end of his International career. I can’t think of too many more tbh.

    Playing Marcus Smith at 10, with Farrell at 12 would be a step up though surely?

    It makes sense on paper but in truth you’d then have Farrell calling the shots and stifling Smith.

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  • BonesB Offline
    BonesB Offline
    Bones
    replied to Catogrande on last edited by
    #242

    @Catogrande said in England vs Springboks:

    @Bones

    I’m not so sure, but it depends on how much he and his family are enjoying life in France. There is of course the money side of things and who in England has room within the salary cap to cope. More importantly though is that part of the reason he made the move was for the well being of his family and himself. He was getting a lot of online hate, which is despicable. Odd isn’t it that when someone is personally targeted and there are clear consequences for that person, the police are nowhere to be seen..

    I think you're talking about the player?

    CatograndeC 1 Reply Last reply
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  • CatograndeC Offline
    CatograndeC Offline
    Catogrande
    replied to Bones on last edited by
    #243

    @Bones

    D’oh!

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • D Offline
    D Offline
    Dodge
    wrote on last edited by
    #244

    Farrell at 12 is done, he’s not enough of a threat with ball in hand and he doesn’t run off Smith’s shoulder. Lawrence should be 12 but our 13 also needs to carry more threat, there are a few around like Northmore at Quins who deserve a run.

    Don’t know who could come in as coach now but assuming we haven’t pissed off and insulted F Jones beyond redemption I’d love him to have a go. My conspiracy theory head says that’s why we wouldn’t release him from his contract…

    Billy WebbB 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Billy WebbB Offline
    Billy WebbB Offline
    Billy Webb
    replied to Dodge on last edited by
    #245

    @Dodge
    On an unrelated note - am I over-hyping Sam Underhill's performance?
    I thought he was immense.
    Why is he not a permanent fixture in the match day 23?

    D 1 Reply Last reply
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  • D Offline
    D Offline
    Dodge
    replied to Billy Webb on last edited by Dodge
    #246

    @Billy-Webb said in England vs Springboks:

    @Dodge
    On an unrelated note - am I over-hyping Sam Underhill's performance?
    I thought he was immense.
    Why is he not a permanent fixture in the match day 23?

    No, I think he should be in the 23, and probably in the XV instead of Curry at this stage - I’ll be honest, I’ve never been much good at identifying the best 6 / 7s. Think we need CCS as he’s the best ball carrier in the tight, think Earl has to be in the back row and then am never sure who’s the best 7 out of Underhill and Curry.

    Billy WebbB 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Billy WebbB Offline
    Billy WebbB Offline
    Billy Webb
    replied to Dodge on last edited by
    #247

    @Dodge said in England vs Springboks:

    @Billy-Webb said in England vs Springboks:

    @Dodge
    On an unrelated note - am I over-hyping Sam Underhill's performance?
    I thought he was immense.
    Why is he not a permanent fixture in the match day 23?

    No, I think he should be in the 23, and probably in the XV instead of Curry at this stage - I’ll be honest, I’ve never been much good at identifying the best 6 / 7s. Think we need CCS as he’s the best ball carrier in the tight, think Earl has to be in the back row and then am never sure who’s the best 7 out of Underhill and Curry.

    Makes sense from what I have seen - CCS + Earl.
    Then you have the luxury of staring either of Curry or Underhill and having the other off the bench.
    For me, Underhill could cover 6 & 7

    CatograndeC 1 Reply Last reply
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  • D Offline
    D Offline
    Dodge
    wrote on last edited by
    #248

    I think CCS should be able to cover 6 and 8, but his hands and skills aren't good enough for 8 yet. Earl and Curry have both played 6, 7 and 8. Underhill covers 6 and 7. Problem is we keep picking Dombrandt on the bench. I like AD against tired defences playing off Smith's shoulder, but our team aren't strong enough to carry a lack of grunt, good in the loose, ball playing 8 at the moment.

    CatograndeC 1 Reply Last reply
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  • CatograndeC Offline
    CatograndeC Offline
    Catogrande
    replied to Billy Webb on last edited by
    #249

    @Billy-Webb

    Interestingly, when both Curry and Underhill were playing for England together (2019) it was Underhill preferred at 7 with Curry switching to 6. It was actually quite a good balance and of course very quick. We had Billy V at 8 who was really beginning to show his age (although not actually that old) so we bloody well needed that extra speed.

    Billy WebbB nostrildamusN 2 Replies Last reply
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  • CatograndeC Offline
    CatograndeC Offline
    Catogrande
    replied to Dodge on last edited by
    #250

    @Dodge

    Agreed on both CCS and Dombrandt - I replay like the way he plays for Quins but firstly, England do not play that way and secondly I'm still not sure his game and skillset work at International level. We've seen glimpses where his handling and running lines make a difference but not enough times to cover for all the times he goes missing..

    Our bench has been utter dogshit all this series and more frustratingly looked utter dogshit just seeing it written down. That it underwhelmed continually was no surprise at all.

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  • Billy WebbB Offline
    Billy WebbB Offline
    Billy Webb
    replied to Catogrande on last edited by
    #251

    @Catogrande said in England vs Springboks:

    @Billy-Webb

    Interestingly, when both Curry and Underhill were playing for England together (2019) it was Underhill preferred at 7 with Curry switching to 6. It was actually quite a good balance and of course very quick. We had Billy V at 8 who was really beginning to show his age (although not actually that old) so we bloody well needed that extra speed.

    Maybe I just haven't seen him in a while, but Underhill looked to me like he has bulked up quite a bit?

    CatograndeC 1 Reply Last reply
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  • CatograndeC Offline
    CatograndeC Offline
    Catogrande
    replied to Billy Webb on last edited by
    #252

    @Billy-Webb

    He's always been very big around the shoulders to be fair. Maybe a bit more added recently but he's never been scrawny.

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • nostrildamusN Offline
    nostrildamusN Offline
    nostrildamus
    replied to Catogrande on last edited by
    #253

    @Catogrande said in England vs Springboks:

    @Billy-Webb

    Interestingly, when both Curry and Underhill were playing for England together (2019) it was Underhill preferred at 7 with Curry switching to 6. It was actually quite a good balance and of course very quick.

    Yes it was a lethal combo.

    SmutsS 1 Reply Last reply
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  • SmutsS Offline
    SmutsS Offline
    Smuts
    replied to NTA on last edited by
    #254

    @NTA no doubt you were being hyperbolic to make your point. And there’s no question SA isn’t producing the quality of refs it did but after Watson we gave the world the underrated Mark Lawrence and the best ref of the early pro era: Kaplan.

    You’ve also ignored Craig Joubert, who was superb whatever the Whinging Scots and bitter French bleat. I’m biased: in his teens he reffed me all the way up from u14C to Firsts. But in my personal rugby six degrees of separation I’m prouder of being part of his journey than the small part I played in Skinstad, Butch James or Danie Rossouw’s.

    Listing these officials reminds me that SA’s loss of rugby capital over the last few decades has been immense. Kaplan should be mentoring young SA refs and reffing schoolboy derbies - instead he emigrated to Canada. Last I heard he was running the MLR officials.

    BonesB 1 Reply Last reply
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  • SmutsS Offline
    SmutsS Offline
    Smuts
    replied to nostrildamus on last edited by
    #255

    @nostrildamus said in England vs Springboks:

    @Catogrande said in England vs Springboks:

    @Billy-Webb

    Interestingly, when both Curry and Underhill were playing for England together (2019) it was Underhill preferred at 7 with Curry switching to 6. It was actually quite a good balance and of course very quick.

    Yes it was a lethal combo.

    England pack is short a serious, angry lump in the front row and, with Chessum injured, a mean Martin Johnson-style 4. Martin is average at best. Doesn’t strike fear in the hearts of jacklers at the breakdown, do much of anything in the lineout and isn’t a significant heavy carrier.

    He’s also amongst the worst fringe defenders in test rugby.

    All of which puts heavy pressure on loosies and 12 to carry in close and on other tighties in the trenches.

    Maybe with Chessum and Angry FR Lump to Be IDed Borthwick could afford to start Earl. It was madness to do so without them against the Boks. Should’ve gone with the biggest, meanest 8 in England with Undehill and C-S (who’s going to be a real weapon when he grows up.) then bring Earl on to run at tired players.

    D 1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • BonesB Offline
    BonesB Offline
    Bones
    replied to Smuts on last edited by
    #256

    @Smuts wasn't joubert passed over for a RWC? Shithouse.

    SmutsS 1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • SmutsS Offline
    SmutsS Offline
    Smuts
    replied to Bones on last edited by
    #257

    @Bones don’t think so. He retired shortly after his abominable treatment by the Scots after the 2015 QF.

    Think he was keen to ref the Olympics but didn’t get the shout?

    BonesB 1 Reply Last reply
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