The Silver Fern

@sparky said in All Blacks 2024:

I am trying to work out what's gone so wrong with our backline.

These are my guesses.

1. Aging players are kept in the squad when once upon a time two bad performances would have led to the selectors hitting the ejector seat button.

2. Some of our backs ain't fast enough.

3. Our backs ain't spending enough time together on the training paddock working on combinations, attacking angles and the timing of passes.

I'd welcome other suggestions.

Our backline attack has completely stagnated since having BB at 10.

I may seem obsessed with this notion since it's all I've posted recently..but it's infuriating to see something eventuate that seemed so obvious from the outside.

Beauden has never looked good against the rush. He has a horrible passing game, he doesn't run flat to draw in defenders and free the outside backs. He telegraphs his passes and shovels it on, it's just trash. And our attack greatly suffers.

Amazing how we were consistently getting around rush defense with Dmac at 10 (someone with an actual passing game), and it's suddenly disappeared again with BB back.

I'm just in disbelief he is still getting picked to start at 10.

Honestly he must be the most charming person on the planet off the field to keep getting picked.

@Jailbreak7 said in Italy v All Blacks:

Well. A little more calm this morning. But. So many work ons. And it does feel like we've regressed since the WC. TBF the forwards went pretty well this tour. But. The backs. And the attack plan / game management for the most part was non-existent. I could not see for the life of me what they were trying to achieve last night. When they were just hammering away at the Italian line but constantly over running or shelling the last pass, it looked pretty clueless and rudderless out there. No-one seemed willing to step up and take responsibility to seize the game by the scruff. Headless chickens. Leadership group? Where the fuck were they? A leader would be a good start. Think this will spell the end of some careers for sure.

Crazy how we're suddenly struggling to outflank the rush defense again ever since Beaudens been starting at 10..

The fact that he thinks the issue is the overseas policy is just embarrassing.

We have all the players we need already in NZ.

The fact he can't see that is extremely disturbing.

Also sends a nice message and an ironic hit to the apparent brotherhood he has formed with his players.

'You aren't good enough'

@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:

Nov 23, 2024

Robertson to up ante on selecting overseas players for All Blacks

The All Blacks coach, reflecting on his first year in charge, said he will make a submission to the NZ Rugby board about changing the selection criteria.

I think I've been had. I'm already very bearish on next season if that's how he feels. Perhaps the SuperCoach should just select good players and coach, instead of fapping over guys that chose to leave?

Quote from the article.

“You cannot replace Test experience – that’s one thing I’ve learned. Hence why Sam Cane has been so valuable. That’s the consistency that South Africa have at the moment."

This is BS. No wonder he's been picking complete has beens all year.

Experience is not fungible/equal.

A lot of the old heads in this group have had a decade of being losers, breaking records for losing, and just in general being inferior. They have BAD experience.

No surprise our best players all year have been debutants who have taken it directly to teams that have been dominating us recently.

Or 2004 where we transformed the team in ONE EOYT by leaving behind Spencer/Marshall and a bunch of experienced MUST HAVE players.

And the next gen took over and dominated the world.

We are on the cusp of that here but apparently Razor is scared to pull the switch.

Don't forget our best player in Sititi this year may have only had 80 minutes of game time all year if it wasn't for that Blackadder injury.

Or seeing Aumua step up when he had no CHOICE after Taylors early injury, and he performed and became a monster this tour, after finally being given a full game instead of a BS garbage time 15 minutes at the end.

We have a bunch of toxic nepotism picks who have been losers for near a DECADE holding us up with our next generation just waiting in the stands until they get they their chance.

Beauden/Rieko/Jordie are immediate examples.

Scott Barret/Reece, possibly Ardie are more.

More than half the team currently literally aren't the best in NZ.

Surely Beauden is never picked for the ABs again after this tour.

Reminiscent of Spencer at the end of 2004.

Why is Beauden still at 10

Beauden not able to pass more than 5 metres

Why is Beauden still on. It's 58th min

@Jet said in Italy v All Blacks:

@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

Clear yellow

ALB offers nothing and gets picked game after game

Give him Fiji, at least, but other than that I've got nothing.

Wanted rid of him 5 years ago. He has 25 more caps than Frank Bunce.

All of our midfielders have been complete shit for 4 years now.

@Victor-Meldrew said in Italy v All Blacks:

@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Victor-Meldrew said in Italy v All Blacks:

@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:

@No-Quarter said in Italy v All Blacks:

We have too much talent for Italy, but man we are such a poorly selected and coached side right now. Surf Jesus has turned out to be a poor man's Fozzie but also with a strong bias to his own region.

Steady on.

You are going to defend Foster on one freak game?
Surf Jesus wept.

No. Just pointing out that Robertson's arguably the most over-hyped AB coach in my lifetime.

He won Super Rugby every single year he was in charge.

Why are people surprised there was hype around him????

We're 5-1 against NH this year anyway with the only loss being a 1 pointer in Paris.

It's been a pass mark for the first year.

Rugby Championship disappointing.

How shit is Scott

That must be Riekos first linebreak in like 2 years

Bring on Dmac, we'll win by 50

How often does Rieko knock it on actually

@akan004 said in All Blacks v France:

Not sure if anyone on here has called them cowards, it was definitely not a cowardly move. I just think it was a stupid call.

Yeah not here, seemed to be passed around some of the media.

@akan004 said in All Blacks v France:

What would the French have preferred? Defending a lineout 5-10 metres from their line and potentially being pinned in their red zone for the next few minutes, or to be 1 point ahead with a deep kickoff into the opposition half against a team that doesn't exit well? I think they would have been extremely relieved when we took the 3.

I think we made the right choice. We had been in their 22 multiple times most of the game and failed to score. We hadnt scored a try since the Roigard individual play, which was 50 minutes earlier.

If we go for the lineout there, and then WE get penalized trying to score, France kick it down field with possession and we're now down 4 with a minute left with near no chance of winning.

Instead we take the 3 on offer, and then get back to their 22 (which we did) and then the french can't even risk being aggressive at the breakdown or offside or the game is over.

That's my perception of it. If we were more clinical in the 22 during the game I would have said go for the lineout, but we weren't.

I believe Scott felt more comfortable attacking from within our half to get back to their half and then only need a penalty, than he did actually getting past the tryline, which is how the entire game had gone really.

I'm also confused by this narrative that we were cowards for taking the 3, and it was un-All Black like.

To me it seems much more brave and confident to say "We're not going to camp out here and hope to sneak a try in with pick and go or maul for the next 5 minutes.

Instead, we're so confident we can get back here and you can't stop us getting here, that we'll take the 3 and be back here within 5 minutes to win the game."

Which btw we actually did get back near their 22 within the 5 minutes, only for Beauden/Rieko to screw up.

I guess Scott didn't take that into account unfortunately.

@dogmeat said in All Blacks v France:

@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:

Let's not compare to the previous 4 years where against the big teams we were a genuine DISTANT second each time and looked like we needed them to capitulate for us to have a chance.

Actually against the big teams we were a lot like we have been this year. Looking world beaters one minute and utter chumps the next.

I'd actually disagree. Against the big teams last cycle we never looked like world beaters.

That's why it was so depressing. We looked like we never had a chance, imo.

Agree to disagree.

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v France:

@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:

But at least we are now saying confidently these are games we SHOULD have won.

Disagree completely. We should have won multiple games in the last 6 years. We didn't mainly for the same reason we lost last nite - poor on-field management (remember Read's staring eyes?).

At the moment, at best, we are playing to the level of last years RWC knock-out stages or Ellis Park '23 - just not consistently.

That's fine I just disagree.

I felt a genuine sense of dread watching us play for most of 2020-2023.

Felt more often than not we offered nothing against the TOP teams.

That they could beat us playing at 75% AND that we would need to be at our best (with our horrible attack shape) to possibly have a chance.

That's just my perspective.

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v France:

@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:

Today we were up 14-3 and comfortable and just blew it.

Agreed. We fell apart in the later stages of the game. Quelle surprise.

It doesn't matter that we lost differently to the last 4 years, completely dominated or were comfortably up 14-3 at half-time. We still lost when we should have won.

It's the same poor game management and inability to remain cool and reassert control under pressure we've seen for the last 6-7 years. Today was pretty much a repeat of Bled 1 this year, Twickenham in '22 and much of Lions 2017.

I really thought a corner had been turned last week but we regressed - again. Maybe it's time to ditch the older players/make a fresh start with a new management group inc. the likes of Vaa'i, Sititi etc.

Oh I agree there is clearly a mental issue with some of the players. I actually think a lot of the core guys from the last 6 years have just gotten used to losing, while the younger newer ones are much more confident and willing to play.

But at least we are now saying confidently these are games we SHOULD have won.

The 4 years prior.. pretty much every game lost was a deserved loss where we were never in it, and even some of the wins we were the inferior team scraping past by a whisker, praying the other team plays below themselves so we have a shot.

@brodean said in All Blacks v France:

@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:

@brodean said in All Blacks v France:

@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:

Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.

Rightly or wrongly we just don't have the same expectations for the ABs

There's a difference to the way we lost compared to the last regime.

We weren't good enough to win in other ways?

I'm saying there's a big difference when you are clearly the inferior team and being outplayed the entire game with no chance of winning (like our last 2 games against France before today).

And today where we dominated and blew it from not converting.

There's a BIG difference.

It's not as black and white as 'we won/lost'.