B&I Lions 2017
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How very prescient of them considering our guys are only just winding up and lots can happen in Super rugby.
They obviously haven't been watching the Super games as they have excluded one of the standout players so far in TKB. A 9 that will be way more up to speed on AB systems than Pulu. Pulu will be 4th in order should injuries happen.
SBW to make a comeback attempt yet as well at the possible expense of Moala.
As for the Taufua over Dixon call? Can't see that happening (injuries aside)
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From Steve Deane at newsroom.co.nz (https://www.newsroom.co.nz/@rugby/2017/03/15/11021/the-lion-effect )
The Lion$ Effect - NZ Rugby’s massive windfall
Twenty-point-four million dollars in cash. That’s what the New Zealand Rugby banked the last time the British and Irish Lions toured here.
It is best known for Dan Carter’s coming-of-age party and Brian O’Driscoll’s controversial shoulder injury, however it’s arguable the most dramatic thing the tour produced was the boost to New Zealand Rugby’s bank balance.
Crunching the numbers from 2005, it’s no wonder New Zealand Rugby have prioritised the 2017 Lions tour ahead of, well, everything. It’s not every year – or even every decade – that rugby’s version of Santa Claus drops by with a swag bag of cash that will more than treble the governing body’s income and increase its asset base by over 20 per cent almost overnight.
That is exactly what happened in 2005.
Of the 360,000 available tickets for the 11 matches, 355,000 were sold, with a good chunk claimed by 29,000 tourists from the United Kingdom.
Figures from New Zealand Rugby’s 2005 annual report show those visitors generated estimated foreign exchange gains for the country of $120M, and a total economic benefit of $250M. While the methodology used in economic impact reporting can be malleable, the $20.4m banked by the NZRU is a rock-solid figure.
The effect on the organisation’s balance sheet was dramatic.
In the previous financial year, when the All Blacks played in the Tri-Nations, hosted two June tests against England and one against Argentina before undertaking a four-match Northern Hemisphere tour, revenue from fixtures and tours was $9.24m, and total income from all sources $104.904m.
In 2005, revenue from fixtures and tours climbed to $33.904m (an increase of $24.649m) and total income was up nearly $42m to $146.675m.
The value of assets held by NZR increased from $84.458M to $108.839M – the increase almost entirely made up of the near 25 million extra dollars banked thanks to the Lions Tour (NZR’s financial reports show $34.181M cash in the bank – up from $9.028M).
The Lions practically defecate money.
All smiles during the successful 2005 Tour. Picture: Getty Images
“It was a year to treasure,” then NZRU chairman the late Jock Hobbs in a press release accompanying the 2005 annual report. “A year which proved that, by working closely and cohesively, New Zealand rugby is capable of making – and keeping – big promises.”And cashing in when the opportunity presents itself.
With the storm clouds of the GFC gathering, the money banked in 2005 would be needed. A year later, New Zealand Rugby’s financial outlook was significantly less rosy. The game’s revenue declined a whopping 36 percent in 2006. Of the $53.4m drop, $34m was directly attributable to not having a Lions series to host. Another $19m was due to exchange rate fluctuations and $10m due to a back-ended broadcasting agreement coming to a close.
“The 2006 financial result highlights the fact that, with approximately two-thirds of our revenue generated in foreign currency, we are very vulnerable to exchange rate movements,” then chief executive Chris Moller noted.
By 2008, another key pressure was coming to bear. Spectator interest in the game – particularly the once mighty NPC - had begun to wane, and even All Blacks test matches were no longer selling out.
“Significant pressure remains on the sustainability of rugby at the provincial and franchise level, and this pressure is intensified by the economic, competitive and preference factors which have seen some rugby fans choose to watch or attend less rugby than they have in the past,” Hobbs noted.
“We must address this issue. We must also do this in the context of the most severe economic downturn since the Great Depression.”
Had it not been for the 2005 Lions cash, the situation would have been vastly more grim. The windfall helped insulate the game financially at a difficult time, but the money would not last forever. Revenues needed to increase. With income from major sponsorship contracts and broadcast rights locked in, there was only one obvious option – to play more matches.
In 2008, for the first time, an extra Bledisloe Cup match was played in Hong Kong, creating much of the additional $7.8m in revenue generated that year. Additional matches – such as the now semi-regular trip to Chicago have become an accepted part of the All Blacks schedule. While they are lucrative, the returns pale in comparison to the goldrush of a Lions tour.
It remains to be seen, though, whether the 2017 tour will deliver similar returns as 2005.
Newsroom requested interviews with New Zealand Rugby officials and submitted questions relating to financial projections for the forthcoming tour but did not receive a response in time to be included in this version of this story.
We asked New Zealand Rugby how many tickets were available for sale during the tour and how many they hoped to sell.
Our calculations - based on ground capacities published on the official Lions website suggest the total number of tickets available will be similar to 2005 – approximately 357,548 (compared to 360,000).
While the 2017 tour will comprise one less match (10 instead of 11), New Zealand’s largest stadium, Eden Park, will host two of the three test matches. In a switch from the traditional tour structure, the Lions will play warm-up and mid-week matches largely against the Super Rugby franchises at major metropolitan stadiums rather than visit provinces such as Southland, Taranaki and Manawatu, as they did in 2005. The upshot is that the total number of available tickets remains similar to that of the 2005 tour.
Twelve years on from the last Lions tour, New Zealand Rugby is in a remarkably similar financial position. Its total assets are valued at $153,095m. In 2005, that figure was $108.839m which, adjusted for inflation, is $137.5m. In real terms, then, NZR has increased its asset base by just 11 per cent over 12 years.
In 2005, it took a little over six weeks to boost the game’s assets by more than double that - 22.5 per cent. That’s the reality of the Lion$ effect.
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Re: TKB. It will come down to whether All Blacks will be released for the Maori. Last time the Maori match was two weeks before the first test. This time it is one week.
He's already off and the Maori need a top halfback. My money is on Pulu getting the third spot.
In saying that I hope a couple of All Blacks get released.
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@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Replacements:
Connor MurrayMy initial reaction is that is preposterous - Murray is clearly the best 9 going up there. But maybe it isn't about who is best and picking them in the XV, perhaps the balance is better starting with Webb/Youngs and then upping the ante as needed with Murray.
Gatland traditionally uses his bench poorly, but often doesn't have a great hand to play with - this could be his chance.
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So maybe better to use Vunipola off the bench as Jones did.
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@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
So maybe better to use Vunipola off the bench as Jones did.
Not a silly idea.
Do you mean starting Faletau or putting an irishman in the boot and creating an all green 8,9,10? -
@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
Re: TKB. It will come down to whether All Blacks will be released for the Maori. Last time the Maori match was two weeks before the first test. This time it is one week.
He's already off and the Maori need a top halfback. My money is on Pulu getting the third spot.
In saying that I hope a couple of All Blacks get released.
I'm sure some players could still be released from the AB camp for that game. TKB is clearly in the top 3 halfbacks, and is currently the best on form. If TKB signing an overseas contract counts against him, then Faumuina shouldn't be picked either.
The injury to Weber is a problem for the Maori because he could have started that game. But as I've said before, the Chiefs may be missing a lot of Maori-elligible players if they're not allowed to play both games. I'm sure the coaches will know what the deal is even if that info hasn't been released publically.
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@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
So maybe better to use Vunipola off the bench as Jones did.
Not a silly idea.
Do you mean starting Faletau or putting an irishman in the boot and creating an all green 8,9,10?He's referring to Mako. not Billy
Might be able to get more from him off the bench than starting.Not a bad shout. Start with McGrath and WP Nel. Then finish with Mako and Furlong?
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@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
Re: TKB. It will come down to whether All Blacks will be released for the Maori. Last time the Maori match was two weeks before the first test. This time it is one week.
He's already off and the Maori need a top halfback. My money is on Pulu getting the third spot.
In saying that I hope a couple of All Blacks get released.
I'm sure some players could still be released from the AB camp for that game. TKB is clearly in the top 3 halfbacks, and is currently the best on form. If TKB signing an overseas contract counts against him, then Faumuina shouldn't be picked either.
The injury to Weber is a problem for the Maori because he could have started that game. But as I've said before, the Chiefs may be missing a lot of Maori-elligible players if they're not allowed to play both games. I'm sure the coaches will know if what the deal is even if that info hasn't been released publically.
The difference with Faumuina is that he is clearly second best with daylight third. TKB doesn't have that luxury.
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@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
Re: TKB. It will come down to whether All Blacks will be released for the Maori. Last time the Maori match was two weeks before the first test. This time it is one week.
He's already off and the Maori need a top halfback. My money is on Pulu getting the third spot.
In saying that I hope a couple of All Blacks get released.
I'm sure some players could still be released from the AB camp for that game. TKB is clearly in the top 3 halfbacks, and is currently the best on form. If TKB signing an overseas contract counts against him, then Faumuina shouldn't be picked either.
The injury to Weber is a problem for the Maori because he could have started that game. But as I've said before, the Chiefs may be missing a lot of Maori-elligible players if they're not allowed to play both games. I'm sure the coaches will know if what the deal is even if that info hasn't been released publically.
The difference with Faumuina is that he is clearly second best with daylight third. TKB doesn't have that luxury.
You don't think Laulala has a shot of getting back in? I'd argue Laulala is a better alternative to Faumuina than Pulu is to TKB.
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@Unco said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
Re: TKB. It will come down to whether All Blacks will be released for the Maori. Last time the Maori match was two weeks before the first test. This time it is one week.
He's already off and the Maori need a top halfback. My money is on Pulu getting the third spot.
In saying that I hope a couple of All Blacks get released.
I'm sure some players could still be released from the AB camp for that game. TKB is clearly in the top 3 halfbacks, and is currently the best on form. If TKB signing an overseas contract counts against him, then Faumuina shouldn't be picked either.
The injury to Weber is a problem for the Maori because he could have started that game. But as I've said before, the Chiefs may be missing a lot of Maori-elligible players if they're not allowed to play both games. I'm sure the coaches will know if what the deal is even if that info hasn't been released publically.
The difference with Faumuina is that he is clearly second best with daylight third. TKB doesn't have that luxury.
You don't think Laulala has a shot of getting back in? I'd argue Laulala is a better alternative to Faumuina than Pulu is to TKB.
I see what you're saying but as well as he is playing, TKB is still unlikley to make the 23.
Faumuina will certainly make the 23, he has 46 tests to his name. While Laulala's has 4 tests and his most memorable act in a black jersey was when Nic White ran past him to score a match winning try in 2015.I should reiterate I don't actually care which halfback is sitting in the stands for the All Blacks (whether it is Pulu, TKB or Sharky Robinson), but I'd prefer TKB was wearing 9 for the Maori.
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No argument Faumuina will make it in, I just don't think Pulu has a shot in hell, not unless TKB has pissed off Hansen (and it sure doesn't seem like he has, unlike Luatua). If TKB does miss out, I think it'd be more because they only selected two halfbacks.
But yeah, I'd like to see TKB in a Maori jersey, alongside a few other ABs and AB hopefuls. Hoping for Cruden or ALB is probably a bit too much but I don't see why DMac, Elliot Dixon or Rieko Ioane (assuming they all make it) couldn't be released. I watched the 2005 Maori vs Lions game last night and one of the coolest parts, aside from the win, was seeing Hayman, Gibbes, Holah, Weepu, MacDonald, Spencer (though he was out of the ABs by then), Rico Gear and McAlister all in there.
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@Unco No ALB or DLB for the Maori.
I'd look at the Maori game in another way and use it to strike an early blow against the Lions like the Maori did in 2005. OK, it's possible that the Blues, Crusaders or Highlanders could win their games but you would think that the Lions shadow test XV will start against the Maori.
So that means selecting the strongest possible team including some ABs.
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@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Composite Lions XV, from the selections of 20 leading pundits, created by the Western Mail.
Connor Murray.
Conor Murray.
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@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Composite Lions XV, from the selections of 20 leading pundits, created by the Western Mail.
Connor Murray.
Conor Murray.
Just because his mum can't spell doesn't mean we should dumb down as well
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@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Composite Lions XV, from the selections of 20 leading pundits, created by the Western Mail.
Connor Murray.
Conor Murray.
Just because his mum can't spell doesn't mean we should dumb down as well
Agreed. Although calling Mike his mum is crossing the line. He is Welsh after all. They're sensitive souls....
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@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
How very prescient of them considering our guys are only just winding up and lots can happen in Super rugby.
They obviously haven't been watching the Super games as they have excluded one of the standout players so far in TKB. A 9 that will be way more up to speed on AB systems than Pulu. Pulu will be 4th in order should injuries happen.
SBW to make a comeback attempt yet as well at the possible expense of Moala.
As for the Taufua over Dixon call? Can't see that happening (injuries aside)
Hard to pick an ABs squad without knowing how many they're going to name or what positions. BUT,..
- I don't really see Tu'ungafasi being ahead of Laulala as a tighthead and certainly several on the loosehead side most notably Hames and Manu. They may well just pick 4 props and have two others training with them.
1a. If Harris comes back strongly he'd be a reasonable shot over Coltman. I think he's due back this month isn't he?
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Locks - Romano and Tuipolotu both under a bit of pressure from Barrett and Bird IMO.
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Loosie mix looks wrong - don't see Taufua as more than an outside chance, doubtful they'll pick three opensides, and Messam may be in the equation (assume he's available?) - as might Luke Whitelock!!!
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Halfback - TKB ahead of Pulu
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Sopoaga added to the first fives
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Unless he's injured it will surprise me not to see SBW in for Moala.
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I don't really see the point of DMac - a third fullback - in this selection. I'd expect to see Ioane, Naholo or even Tamanivalu/Moala instead.
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A warm-up game against Samoa seems to be a real possibility now. So does Hansen name a large squad before this game or refine the squad after they play?
Thinking back to 2005 and the Fiji game, Anesi came off the bench for his one and only test cap but wasn't involved in the Lions series. Tuiali’I didn't make the final cut either. That AB side also didn't include any players involved in the Maori-Lions game the following night so only 24 players were named.
A Friday June 16 date could again eliminate some Highlanders players, and some Maori players, assuming a handful are released if they aren't involved in the AB match-day 23. As it would be an official test match you couldn't give all the squad some time on the field. So it's better to give other members of the squad a game in those other fixtures than none at all for 2 weeks.
