So, what HAS Michael Cheika actually done as a coach?

Zader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="610004" data-time="1472344514">
<div>
Yeah - I guess they did eventually. But, a significant part of the answer was finding better cattle to play under the new (ELV) rules.
 
It was interesting though that they spent a season being out-coached by Puppet (who seemed to me to be about the least competent Tri-Nations coach of all time) and not finding the answers.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
That RSA side had won the World Cup and beaten the Lions and had their game plan down pat, they were a well-oild machine that dominated everyone in the line-out and their kick chase was very effective.
 
Carter was injured or just coming back from injury in 09 and yes we did lose 3 on the trot to RSA. Tom Donnelly came in to help provide a short term fix for the team and we ditched the wide men who couldn't handle the high balls. And basically ran the ball from everywhere and stopped kicking the ball to the Boks. The Wallabies copied the template.
 
And the rest is history. 2009 was the All Black annus horibilis and their response to that laid the foundations for subsequent success.
 
This is pretty close to rock bottom for the Wallabies, they don't have great depth but enough good players to be #2, it will take time to match the ABs skill level. They need to change captain, Stephen Moore isn't a very good player and he needs to be allowed to work on his game, he is a rubbish captain. They need to lose the niggle, and then work incredibly hard & smart. By next year they could be a very different prospect. Mick Byrne is a coup.
 
Thought ALB had a fine debut, a 21 year old kid who looks like the finished product already.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="610135" data-time="1472367136">
<div>
Not joking, specifically. I was saying that the niggle, in as far as fronting up physically, was working to a degree, but wasn't backed up with any rugby smarts to capitalise on it.
</div>
</blockquote>
I don't actually think it did work, the ABs put on two tries early while the niggle was in full string. I think despite predictions this test was always going to be closer and that was borne out. The niggle cost Australia a man when they were in the game and could have had a real push after half time.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="610141" data-time="1472367452">
<div>
I don't actually think it did work, the ABs put on two tries early while the niggle was in full string. I think despite predictions this test was always going to be closer and that was borne out. The niggle cost Australia a man when they were in the game and could have had a real push after half time.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Coleman's actions went beyond niggle in terms of pissing the ref off, and not picking your moment. Doing it in front of the ref with a forceful shoulder instead of just letting the opponent run into you and trip over is taking it too far.
 
Should have done what Cane did - wait until the ref's eyes are somewhere else, then shove him.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="610144" data-time="1472367596">
<div>
Coleman's actions went beyond niggle in terms of pissing the ref off, and not picking your moment. Doing it in front of the ref with a forceful shoulder instead of just letting the opponent run into you and trip over is taking it too far.
 
Should have done what Cane did - wait until the ref's eyes are somewhere else, then shove him.
</div>
</blockquote>
Hahaha - that is the funniest description of a late no arms tackle I've ever heard.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Zader" data-cid="610138" data-time="1472367283">
<div>
That RSA side had won the World Cup and beaten the Lions and had their game plan down pat, they were a well-oild machine that dominated everyone in the line-out and their kick chase was very effective.
 
Carter was injured or just coming back from injury in 09 and yes we did lose 3 on the trot to RSA. Tom Donnelly came in to help provide a short term fix for the team and we ditched the wide men who couldn't handle the high balls. And basically ran the ball from everywhere and stopped kicking the ball to the Boks. The Wallabies copied the template.
 
And the rest is history. 2009 was the All Black annus horibilis and their response to that laid the foundations for subsequent success.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Yep - they basically marched up the field, stole our lineouts, forced a penalty that Morne Steyne kicked - rinse and repeat. And of course they were using the high ball that Habana especially was much better at than our guys.
 
We had Beaver for the first two tests in 2009 and Danny Boy came back to run the Boks close at home. 
 
In 2010, Tom Donnelly and ultimately Sam Whitelock (and the return of Ali Williams) helped to strengthen our lineout - but, the emergence of Kieran Read to supplant Rodders was also crucial in shoring up our lineout.
 
If we'd had to persist with Isaac Ross, Rodders, Beaver and Sivi - I'm not sure we would have fixed things in 2010.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="610149" data-time="1472368027">
<div>
Yep - they basically marched up the field, stole our lineouts, forced a penalty that Morne Steyne kicked - rinse and repeat. And of course they were using the high ball that Habana especially was much better at than our guys.
 
We had Beaver for the first two tests in 2009 and Danny Boy came back to run the Boks close at home. 
 
In 2010, Tom Donnelly and ultimately Sam Whitelock (and the return of Ali Williams) helped to strengthen our lineout - but, the emergence of Kieran Read to supplant Rodders was also crucial in shoring up our lineout.
 
If we'd had to persist with Isaac Ross, Rodders, Beaver and Sivi - I'm not sure we would have fixed things in 2010. 
</div>
</blockquote>
We ran too much that year and kept coughing up the ball in silly positions so that half the time they didn't need to march up the field to force the penalty.
 
Then DC did a kick instead of going through the hands in the Tron! :ireful:
 
That was a bad year, but I think it contributed mightily going forward. I hope this is just a bad year for the Wallabies. ;)

Zader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="610149" data-time="1472368027">
<div>
Yep - they basically marched up the field, stole our lineouts, forced a penalty that Morne Steyne kicked - rinse and repeat. And of course they were using the high ball that Habana especially was much better at than our guys.
 
We had Beaver for the first two tests in 2009 and Danny Boy came back to run the Boks close at home. 
 
In 2010, Tom Donnelly and ultimately Sam Whitelock (and the return of Ali Williams) helped to strengthen our lineout - but, the emergence of Kieran Read to supplant Rodders was also crucial in shoring up our lineout.
 
If we'd had to persist with Isaac Ross, Rodders, Beaver and Sivi - I'm not sure we would have fixed things in 2010. 
</div>
</blockquote>
You do have a good point re the cattle, I forgot about Ross or maybe just suppressed the memory!!!

nostrildamus

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="sparky" data-cid="610093" data-time="1472362444">I once knew a guy who used to shout "look a flying pig" before trying to take someone else's food or beer, Cheika reminds me of that.</blockquote>I assume you mean Cheika reminds you of the guy you mention, not the flying pig.

barbarian

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="610123" data-time="1472365700">
<div>
So it's ok to take a shot at the ref as long as you take the blame for yourself. It was our fault we lost, oh and by the way the ref is a cheat. But, it's all good, it was our fault we lost.
 
Cheika seemed like a breath of fresh air last year, he's coming across as a knob this year, and sadly a knob who can't coach these blokes very well. I actually don't have a problem with the niggle as a tactic early on, but it clearly wasn't working and he should have stopped it at half time.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I was responding to Kirwan's post, where it was proposed he needed to 'take the blame himself' which he clearly already has.
 
I think if Eddie Jones said what Cheika did it would be a 'cunning ruse, designed to dictate the media narrative for the next week'. If Cheika does it though he 'looks like a knob'.
 
To be brutally honest I don't care what you think of him off the field. We all think Steve Hanson is a cnt but fuck me if he doesn't get results.
 
The issue isn't the post-match pressers at all. It's the motivation within the playing group, what goes on behind closed doors. Obviously something isn't right at the moment. I didn't think we were that far off the mark against England, but we've taken a big step back since then. I wonder if it's just confidence, and all they need is an easy win or two to right the ship. Sadly they aren't going to get that for a looong time.

nostrildamus

"We all think Steve Hanson is a cnt but fuck me if he doesn't get results." Do you?

barbarian

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nostrildamus" data-cid="610166" data-time="1472369388">
<div>
"We all think Steve Hanson is a cnt but fuck me if he doesn't get results." 
Do you?
</div>
</blockquote>
 
He's a bitter, grumpy old bastard. Would hate to be sat next to him on a long flight.
 
Doesn't mean I don't think he's the best coach in the world, and respect the shit out of his ability.

Donsteppa

The difference between Jones and Cheika is that one is getting results. 
John Hart could have spoken exactly like Steve Hansen in late 1998, but at the time we'd have all said he "looks like a knob" too...

NTA

I don't know Hansen that well, so wouldn't know if he's bitter, but he certainly looks like a grumpy bastard.
 
I suppose at best, he's taciturn. Certainly he seems to endear himself to Kiwis with his unsmiling, patronly visage. 
 
When you're riding the best horse in the show, and everyone is on donkeys, you don't need to smile and shout and laugh I guess. He's very quick to fire a shot as a result.

Rancid Schnitzel

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="barbarian" data-cid="610170" data-time="1472369688">
He's a bitter, grumpy old bastard. Would hate to be sat next to him on a long flight. 
Doesn't mean I don't think he's the best coach in the world, and respect the shit out of his ability.</blockquote>
 
Grumpy maybe, but bitter?

jegga

Why would he be bitter?

Chris B.

To be honest, I'm not sure why Shag feels the need to needle Cheika and the Aussies. They're obviously on the down and to a point - it feels like putting the boot in.
 
I guess, to a point, it does help to keep them on the back foot, but right now we don't really need that.Maybe he just doesn't like Cheika?

antipodean

He's clearly neither. Just a dry wit. All the players clearly like him and genuinely so. 
The head coach coming across as a bit of a fluffybunny in the media is Cheika. Something appears rotten from this distant vantage point, as if the players don't have faith in each other or the plan. Moore looks like the captaincy is draining the life out of his soul. 
That may all be rectified by getting a win against the Bokke or Pumas, I can't tell which of the three is the worst in the RC. But another loss at home will make the pressure unbearable. Bled 1 was the fault of the coach because he didn't motivate professionals representing their country for a chance to win a cup they haven't had for over a decade. Bled 2 they were obviously motivated and still lost badly. 
So as a result there's accusations of meetings, accusations of eye gouging and when the requirement came to ante up, neither appeared to be true. But the problems are solved because the media is discussing that rather than the insipid display of rugby and misplaced aggression! "We fronted and with some poor weather the All Blacks scored 33% less tries"...

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="610175" data-time="1472370137">
<div>
I don't know Hansen that well, so wouldn't know if he's bitter, but he certainly looks like a grumpy bastard.
 
I suppose at best, he's taciturn. Certainly he seems to endear himself to Kiwis with his unsmiling, patronly visage. 
 
When you're riding the best horse in the show, and everyone is on donkeys, you don't need to smile and shout and laugh I guess. He's very quick to fire a shot as a result.
</div>
</blockquote>
 He has a dry wit and doesn't suffer fools but don't let Shag's schtick fool you Nick, in there beats the heart of an emotional man super passionate about the ABs and a national treasure. Check out Mr Grumpy at 1:31:50, 1:32, 1:36:30 of this piece

Goddammit if it doesn't still bring me to tears

NTA

No doubt he's a complex bloke

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="610204" data-time="1472374741">
<div>
No doubt he's a complex bloke
</div>
</blockquote>
His players love and respect him and he treats them in kind. Exhibit A, Izzy Dagg. Left out of the RWC15 side, he went away and came back into the squad instead of dropping his bundle and shipping off on an O/E

The Silver Fern

So, what HAS Michael Cheika actually done as a coach?