Bledisloe I (All Blacks team room bugged)

pakman

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/08/22/giteaus-law-must-go-destroys-wallabies-culture/'>http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/08/22/giteaus-law-must-go-destroys-wallabies-culture/</a>

Frank

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pakman" data-cid="608081" data-time="1471853078">
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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/08/22/giteaus-law-must-go-destroys-wallabies-culture/'>http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/08/22/giteaus-law-must-go-destroys-wallabies-culture/</a>
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That's a serious smack-down by Spiro.
I agree with his basic sentiment.

NTA

Oh yeah. Kiwi Spiro having a go at Aussie rugby? That's a shock. 
Not saying he's wrong, but I'm not sure how The Giteau Rule affects Rory Arnold or Sam Carter.

pakman

One thing I will say. Ponies did scrum/lineout/maul exceptionally well in Supers (but little else).

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="608085" data-time="1471854351">
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Oh yeah. Kiwi Spiro having a go at Aussie rugby? That's a shock. 
Not saying he's wrong, but I'm not sure how The Giteau Rule affects Rory Arnold or Sam Carter.
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GFY, you have a Giteau rule, we have a Crowe rule. Spurious Salvoes is all yours mate.

KiwiPie

If anything illustrates the All Black Hansen era, it is a lock running with the ball in both hands and putting a prop into a hole.

MiketheSnow

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="607965" data-time="1471829423">
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i've been thinking a bit more about what i would do if i were cheika.
aussie depth right now isn't great. Hoopah and pocock, while obviously limited in some ways, are both much better players than the other options - and when your depth is shit, i think you've got to get the best guys on the field and find a way to make it work. all this 'get a proper 8 who can run with the ball' - well, there just isn't one.
 
there is no australian lineout forward that is going to consistently steal our ball, so i would give up on that as a realistic tactic - sure throw someone up, niggle and disrupt, but if you select height to try and do that then i think you lose more than you gain, and you're trying to fight a battle you're not going to win.
 
there is absolutely no reason that you can't win your own lineout ball with a small lineout and with limited options, you just need to be clever about it and execute well - do that, and you can keep the midgets.
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They could give Borthwick a ring.

Bovidae

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pakman" data-cid="608088" data-time="1471854824">
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One thing I will say. Ponies did scrum/lineout/maul exceptionally well in Supers (but little else).
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Except when it really mattered in the playoff game vs the Highlanders.

gollum

The Aussie lineout issue is similar really to the shitshow we had a few years back when we picked a hugely mobile, but not jumpy back 3, if you only have 2 big jumpers you can get picked off unless you are utterly perfect.
 
I was listening to the Aussie comentary (actually pretty happy with that, I couldn't have faced Justin losing his shit at the All Black performance) & Rod Kafer was making the point they should just try throwing the long ball over the top to Hooper (despite it failing early) as that was for once a safer ball than going to 2 or 4.

kiwiinmelb

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="607911" data-time="1471823680">
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Tim, NTA - cheers, but I want to watch the replay in HD on a big screen.
 
What is weird is that I can watch full replays of all the NPC matches this weekend.
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If you still havnt seen it , there is a replay tomorrow morning at 11.30 am

Mick Gold Coast QLD

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="607943" data-time="1471827573">
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As I understand it, Pocock can't be captain because of his conviction for hugging mining equipment. Just on him, his ability to pilfer the pill is second to none. But he does sweet FA else. He obviously can't be used in the lineout and offers zero with the ball in hand. Our props are probably more dangerous with the ball that he is. Even Franks.
 
I think the most positive thing is that they can only get better. That was the shittiest Aus display since the dark days of Greg Smith. Foley can be world class on his day, but can also have some horrible Barry Crockers.
 
Ultimately if they actually select a proper 8 who can also be used in the lineout and Foley and the backs get their shit together then they could still be an outside chance next week. I can't see the ABs backing that up. That first half was arguably the best half of rugby from an AB team. In terms of tactics and execution it was absolutely farking sublime. Reckon they would have cracked 60 if Crotty had stayed on and Barrett stayed at 10.
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I cannot see improvement sufficient to repel an All Blacks team which is just as likely to come out of the blocks just as quickly as they did last Saturday, or even 20% less quickly; which has developed handling skills and a determination to back up continuously to a level where it is now instinctive; with a mindset of "we are very good at what we do" and with a composure in the run on 15 which facilitates that. They too have something important to achieve, an improvement on the small errors they will have identified by now; and a bonus point and no bonus point to the other mob.
 
We do not have "a proper 8". We have a handful of mediocre performers who shuffle from 4 to 5 to 6 to 7 to 8 to 20 from week to week, from season to season, all of them under-sized, limited in their range of abilities; used and discarded many times then brought back in.
 
Foley and the backs can only hope to better anticipate where Beauden Barrett might sight the tiniest gap, which is near impossible edging backwards all the while, and to make their tackles. On Page 24 of this thread there is a photo of New Boy's tackling technique on Crotty which suggests that is not going to be easy to correct in a week. Include Cooper? They will have to improve their defensive effort another notch again.
 
I wonder who Steve Hansen might suggest to Ardie as a profitable target for him to run at flat out from the moment he comes on?
 
No, I cannot see anything much different to last week other than home ground, baying mob offering the li'l fella a special welcome (and falling about laughing); Savea wanting to prove his worth; Fekitoa putting on a more precise showing; one or more of newcomers Ioane, Tamanivalu, McKenzie, Parsons and Coltman determined to make their mark; Dagg hell bent on keeping McKenzie at arms length - that sort of thing.
 
I think there is another 35 points and more margin coming up!

nostrildamus

I agree regards Hoopah. But Foley and the midfield and the wings were also poor. And Genoa is a heavier slower clumsily shadow of his former self. 
So the point is not that the ABS won but Australia almost never looked competitive, sharp, opportunistic or threatening. THIS is very unusual.

nostrildamus

And although we are used to them being as physically dominating as Pee Wee Herman their tight forwards were not even that crafty..

Gary

Don't know where all this feel sorry for the Aussie rugby comes from you guys obviously can't remember the 1998 to 2003 and John O'Neil's ARU.

TeWaio

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pakman" data-cid="608081" data-time="1471853078">
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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/08/22/giteaus-law-must-go-destroys-wallabies-culture/'>http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/08/22/giteaus-law-must-go-destroys-wallabies-culture/</a>
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Reading this really makes me appreciate some moves made by the NZRFU in the past.
 
Sponsor on jersey = more money to pay players = less talent away in Europe = no temptation for a "Giteau rule" going into a World Cup = no erosion of domestic game / future prospects of national team / talent development.
 
They copped a lot of flak when AIG happened. But it was the right thing to do.

canefan

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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/08/22/giteaus-law-must-go-destroys-wallabies-culture/'>http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/08/22/giteaus-law-must-go-destroys-wallabies-culture/</a>
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None of the Giteau rule players stood up. It sends a bad message to the boys coming through, it doesn't work for the Saffas and it isn't working for the Wobs

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="608144" data-time="1471865203">None of the Giteau rule players stood up. It sends a bad message to the boys coming through, it doesn't work for the Saffas and it isn't working for the Wobs</blockquote>
 
Although the OZ one is fairly limited with the minimum tests played being so high, so it's not like the floodgates are opened up. 
I guess one way of looking at it is that those younger players need to work harder.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mick Gold Coast QLD" data-cid="608125" data-time="1471861428">
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I cannot see improvement sufficient to repel an All Blacks team which is just as likely to come out of the blocks just as quickly as they did last Saturday, or even 20% less quickly; which has developed handling skills and a determination to back up continuously to a level where it is now instinctive; with a mindset of "we are very good at what we do" and with a composure in the run on 15 which facilitates that. They too have something important to achieve, an improvement on the small errors they will have identified by now; and a bonus point and no bonus point to the other mob.
 
We do not have "a proper 8". We have a handful of mediocre performers who shuffle from 4 to 5 to 6 to 7 to 8 to 20 from week to week, from season to season, all of them under-sized, limited in their range of abilities; used and discarded many times then brought back in.
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I still say at some point (likely very soon) this kind of is Cheika's fault though. You can bemoan the lack of ready made players in certain positions when you first take over, but when the cupboard is empty you need to have a clear idea what skills you are demanding and then start building players towards that and start setting the expectations.
 
For the current game you need your loosie trio to be physical in both attack and defense, high technical skills at the breakdown, contributors at the line out and with very strong ball playing skills. You need all of those ideally, perhaps average in one, but aspiring to all. Legitimately Pocock has the breakdown skills - but little else as a trump suit as his speed declined his breakdown prowess is in question too. Is there an All Black starting forward with worse ball playing skills than him, perhaps Franks?
 
Cheika was gushing with praise for Pocock and Genia after the game. If you are going to praise Pocock after that game you are beyond help and your philosophy when it comes to the loose trio isn't in keeping with the modern game. More than likely Cheika doesn't have a strong conviction when it comes to what a loose trio should be - which is why he is happy running with a gimmick that was old hat a year ago. Deans was similar when he allowed himself to get roped into Radieke Samo as a genuine option at this level.
 
Someone mentioned Adam Thomson earlier and that is spot on for Pocock and Hoopah. Really unique skill set, as an all round player nowhere near dominant at test level.

Frye

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="608151" data-time="1471869290">
Although the OZ one is fairly limited with the minimum tests played being so high, so it's not like the floodgates are opened up. 
I guess one way of looking at it is that those younger players need to work harder.</blockquote>
 
Giteau rule is fine for a World Cup, but is simply a horrible decision at this part of the cycle. How shortsighted can you be?

akan004

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="608165" data-time="1471878531">
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 Legitimately Pocock has the breakdown skills - but little else as a trump suit as his speed declined his breakdown prowess is in question too.
 
Cheika was gushing with praise for Pocock and Genia after the game. If you are going to praise Pocock after that game you are beyond help and your philosophy when it comes to the loose trio isn't in keeping with the modern game. More than likely Cheika doesn't have a strong conviction when it comes to what a loose trio should be - which is why he is happy running with a gimmick that was old hat a year ago.
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To be fair, Pocock made four breakdown turnovers and was instrumental is slowing down the AB ball to a degree. I don't know what more you can expect from a number seven in a beaten pack than what Pocock offered on Saturday night. He was the only Wallaby player to outplay his opposition counterpart.

The Silver Fern

Bledisloe I (All Blacks team room bugged)