Pasty Backline
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nostrildamus" data-cid="602575" data-time="1470153295">
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<p>Some guy called Kirwan?</p>
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<p>Well of course but he retired about a thousand years ago.</p>
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<p>Interesting about the NZ system turning them all into flankers though. A valid point there. I think for shits and gigs Kieran Read should start a test in the midfield the next time the ABs play a minnow in the World Cup.</p>
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<p>I think the obsession goes back a few years when other teams had a chance at providing their "White Lomus".....some went further and filled the backline with them, case in point Wales.</p>
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<p>SidBarret, don't be fooled y George North, just cos he is big and white and worst of all from the Northern Hemisphere don't have any doubts how explosive he is, he caused all sorts of problems in that first test for Wales.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pakman" data-cid="602554" data-time="1470143089">
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<p>My father would say that Ian MacRae, all 86 kg of him, was the original!</p>
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<p>Yep. </p>
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<p>Innes was considered "big" in his era but TKB and TJP are both heavier and taller than Innes was in his AB playing days.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="602568" data-time="1470149870">
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<p>So then the question becomes which NZ flankers could have been good English centres?</p>
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<p>Michael Jones. Remember Hart's comments that he had the skills to play in the centres c1987-88. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="602586" data-time="1470162642">
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<p>...</p>
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<p>SidBarret, don't be fooled y George North, just cos he is big and white and worst of all from the Northern Hemisphere don't have any doubts how explosive he is, he caused all sorts of problems in that first test for Wales.</p>
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<p>Don't get me wrong, I think North is a brilliant player and would have him for Springboks in second, but he is far more likely to power through a tackle than send players flying like skittles the way a in-form Savea/Nadolo/Ranger-type does. </p> -
<p>Back to the white midfielders, does anyone remember John Hainesworth (spelling?) from the 80s? Massive pasty unit from Wanganui, who then transferred to Wellington but never really made it. I used to collect the NZ Rugby Annuals and NZ Rugby Almanack when I was young and he may have been named in the "five most promising" players by one of those publications one year. He may have been selected in one of those "Central Zone" teams in the post-North Island vs. South Island era.</p>
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<p>Dunno whether he was a cracker as Wanganui didn't feature much on Sport on One or Sunday Grandstand, but I'm pretty sure he was. Definitely a blockbuster, was the size of a Boroevich or a McGrattan.</p>
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<p>Ummm...googling led me to this 2005 Wanganui Chronicle article</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503424&objectid=10930510'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503424&objectid=10930510</a></p>
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<p>John Hainsworth (69 games 1984-1995; NZ Div 1988-89-93, NZ Juniors 1984, Central Zone; Marton, Pourewa);</p>
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<p>If you don't remember him you can just say "no."</p> -
<p>I was having this discussion on another forum which is loosely related to what we’re talking about…</p>
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<p>If Matt Faddes' family moved to Auckland when he was 12 would have he ever become a professional rugby player? I’d suggest he’d never have made his 1<sup>st</sup> XV at whatever high school he attended as a big, destructive midfielder would have been preferred. Following his time in the 2nd XV, he’d then play a season for a club team in his first year at Uni and then given the game away as so many of us do because life takes over.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Wurzel" data-cid="602644" data-time="1470181566">
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<p>If Matt Faddes' family moved to Auckland when he was 12 would have he ever become a professional rugby player? I’d suggest he’d never have made his 1<sup>st</sup> XV at whatever high school he attended as a big, destructive midfielder would have been preferred. Following his time in the 2nd XV, he’d then play a season for a club team in his first year at Uni and then given the game away as so many of us do because life takes over.</p>
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<p>I thought Faddes only recently switched to the midfield?</p>
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<p>A guy like Jordan Trainor still made it through as an outside back. He is a similar size</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Wurzel" data-cid="602644" data-time="1470181566">
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<p>I was having this discussion on another forum which is loosely related to what we’re talking about…</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If Matt Faddes' family moved to Auckland when he was 12 would have he ever become a professional rugby player? I’d suggest he’d never have made his 1<sup>st</sup> XV at whatever high school he attended as a big, destructive midfielder would have been preferred. Following his time in the 2nd XV, he’d then play a season for a club team in his first year at Uni and then given the game away as so many of us do because life takes over.</p>
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<p>Braydon Ennor, Matt McKenzie, TJ Vaega and TJ Faiane are just a few midfielders in recent times who've played 1st XV in Auckland who weren't big destructive midfielders, but were top midfielders in school rugby and are all now in good positions in rugby after school. Could probably throw in Jordan Payne and Jack Goodhue(had some size, but wasn't destructive) in there as well.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Provincial Stalwart" data-cid="602622" data-time="1470174212"><p>
Back to the white midfielders, does anyone remember John Hainesworth (spelling?) from the 80s? Massive pasty unit from Wanganui, who then transferred to Wellington but never really made it. I used to collect the NZ Rugby Annuals and NZ Rugby Almanack when I was young and he may have been named in the "five most promising" players by one of those publications one year. He may have been selected in one of those "Central Zone" teams in the post-North Island vs. South Island era.<br><br>
Dunno whether he was a cracker as Wanganui didn't feature much on Sport on One or Sunday Grandstand, but I'm pretty sure he was. Definitely a blockbuster, was the size of a Boroevich or a McGrattan.<br><br>
Ummm...googling led me to this 2005 Wanganui Chronicle article<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503424&objectid=10930510">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503424&objectid=10930510</a><br><br>
John Hainsworth (69 games 1984-1995; NZ Div 1988-89-93, NZ Juniors 1984, Central Zone; Marton, Pourewa);<br><br><br>
If you don't remember him you can just say "no."</p></blockquote>
I think he was faaaar too god for Div2, but not quite good enough for Div1. Plus Wellington were a bit disfunctional when he transferred.<br><br>
Had the big hips, arse for the bump off, but lacked something at the higher level. Can't remember what - maybe pace? Or maybe discipline? I think his waistline was a but too big as well.<br><br>
Warren Johnston was a big unit. Used to always look forward to North Aucks v tourists in the late 80s as in those days outside backs as big & robust as Johnston, Woodman, Going used to carve up against the unsuspecting. -
If Kirwan is too early for MN5s criteria, then so is Noel Pilcher.<br><br>
But he was a big unit for his time.<br><br>
The Kiwan v Pilcher handbags in 87 or 88 North v South was classic, as in hilariously bad. -
Messam may have played centre in other countries
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<p>Well this is a real can of worms :)</p>
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<p>After getting to the bottom of page 1 I decided there weren't enough quality, skinny white guys around to form a flash backline. And by gosh, what is it about Maori that produces so many top halfbacks: Smith, TKB, TJP, Weber, Weepu, Bachop, Going etc.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="602586" data-time="1470162642">
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<p>Interesting about the NZ system turning them all into flankers though. A valid point there. I think for shits and gigs Kieran Read should start a test in the midfield the next time the ABs play a minnow in the World Cup.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think the obsession goes back a few years when other teams had a chance at providing their "White Lomus".....some went further and filled the backline with them, case in point Wales.</p>
<p> </p>
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<p> </p>
<p>read would be the white sbw if he were in the uk. well, actually a combination of him and roberts maybe. he'd be a fluffybunny to play against in midfield if you were a little fella. full steam ahead into contact and an offloading game.</p> -
Isaac Ross would have been a number 10
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Wurzel" data-cid="602772" data-time="1470210988">
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<p>Bachop's Samoan, isn't he?</p>
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<p>And Tahitian I think.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="shark" data-cid="602771" data-time="1470210793">
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<p>Well this is a real can of worms :)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>After getting to the bottom of page 1 I decided there weren't enough quality, skinny white guys around to form a flash backline. And by gosh, what is it about Maori that produces so many top halfbacks: Smith, TKB, TJP, Weber, Weepu, Bachop, Going etc.</p>
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<p>Vince Bevan, Keith Davis and Jimmy Mill if you want to go back a bit further. </p>
