Crusaders 2016 and 2017

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="601404" data-time="1469851232">
Apples and oranges, Kearns isn't a coach and I doubt he was responsible for the team selection in those world cups (which is what we are discussing isn't it?) 
Fucking great player though.</blockquote>
 
I guess the general point was just because they won those titles it doesn't mean aspects of that team weren't beyond criticism. 
Deans' Crusaders won through their loosies and 9-10-12 axis, not with blistering backlines. Similarly his Australian backlines underwhelmed. If Tana is to believed he was also the guy that completely bungled the '03 backline in the semi. The only reason to think he is an outstanding attacking mind is that he understood he needed to basically blood the entire '03 Henry Blues backline to be competitive that season. 
His opinion is interesting and worth listening to like any professional coach with a decent record but I'll look at his baffling backline decisions of the past and take it with a massive grain of salt. He isn't Wayne Smith.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="601406" data-time="1469851736">
I guess the general point was just because they won those titles it doesn't mean aspects of that team weren't beyond criticism. 
Deans' Crusaders won through their loosies and 9-10-12 axis, not with blistering backlines. Similarly his Australian backlines underwhelmed. If Tana is to believed he was also the guy that completely bungled the '03 backline in the semi. The only reason to think he is an outstanding attacking mind is that he understood he needed to basically blood the entire '03 Henry Blues backline to be competitive that season. 
His opinion is interesting and worth listening to like any professional coach with a decent record but I'll look at his baffling backline decisions of the past and take it with a massive grain of salt. He isn't Wayne Smith.</blockquote>
 
Fair enough, and to be honest I can't be fucked getting into the same argument I've had with you several times on here before. I knew you'd bring up Tana sooner or later. 
I've read Tanas book, and it's basically one big whinge against everyone he doesn't like. Only Norm Hewitt ranks alongside him in the crybaby stakes in my opinion. 
We disagree on Deans, let's move on 
I'm a bit biased as I was a massive digby fan, he was an outstanding athlete in his prime, I'm hoping he's still got that and brings it to the crusaders next year. You and I won't know until we see him play

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Canes4life" data-cid="600897" data-time="1469674607">
If he crosses the chalk I hope he pulls out the "Caterpillar" again. <a class="bbc_url" href="

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Anyone that grew up in the 80s and was a fan of hip hop culture /breakdancing will know that's not the caterpillar :) 
I believe it's called the jackhammer

nostrildamus

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="601409" data-time="1469852126">
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Fair enough, and to be honest I can't be fucked getting into the same argument I've had with you several times on here before. I knew you'd bring up Tana sooner or later. 
I've read Tanas book, and it's basically one big whinge against everyone he doesn't like. Only Norm Hewitt ranks alongside him in the crybaby stakes in my opinion. 
We disagree on Deans, let's move on I'm a bit biased as I was a massive digby fan, he was an outstanding athlete in his prime, I'm hoping he's still got that and brings it to the crusaders next year. You and I won't know until we see him play
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Yes, I hated it when he played against us too :)

shark

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="600566" data-time="1469582411">
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I don't agree with you, mostly because of that last phrase. It's a 15 man game and you don't win games and competitions just by having a great pack. The expectations were moderately low at the beginning of the season because the Crusaders lost all their playmakers, in addition to already having a failing backline in the previous years and the team starting with Dagg, Crotty and Fruean all out injured from the beginning of the season.
 
I think most people were surprised they did well, and when Dagg and Crotty came back firing (and before Nadolo's suspension), they smashed the Brumbies in Canberra and suddenly some people started thinking they could go all the way. Then Nadolo got suspended and Blackadder had a brain fart by starting Havili and putting Crotty on the bench against the Highlanders, and the backline fell apart again. That was the main reason they were smashed by the Highlanders. Then the June break happened and their momentum was gone (and Blackadder didn't stop having brain farts, such as starting Macilai against the Chiefs in Fiji instead of McNicholl, who was not injured).
 
If Robertson wants to win a Super Rugby title, a better game plan, better selections and rebuilding a good backline should be his main focus. Mo'unga has huge potential but needs experience around him. I see his situation not different to that of West at the Blues. The Blues have signed some awesome and experienced players in the backs (with Pulu, SBW in addition to Ranger and Moala). The Crusaders should do that, too. At the moment, the only big names in the backs are Crotty and Dagg. They need more (and I'm not convinced Digby Ioane should be one of them) to guide the young talent they have in Mo'unga, and whoever else they sign from NZU20s, their academy and elsewhere.
 
Edit: with Robertson himself a forward, I hope he will get a good assistant to coach the backs. Not sure who are in the frame ...
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Spot on, well said.
 
Someone mentioned Ioane could play centre. Well if that's the case, then a) we're still looking for two wingers (preferably one who can play fullback), and b) the midfield mix already includes Crotty, Havili'i, Freuan, Barrett and Goodhue - all of whom I would expect to be named in the expanded 2017 squad - so a sixth option is possibly a bit OTT. It's wingers we need, and if Ioane isn't one of the answers, then he's surplus to requirements for mine.
 
It's absolutely critical Razor gets his backline selections right, which is something Blackadder was terrible at. Shocking signings include Volavola, McKenzie and Tuitivake, plus selection howlers like Taylor at fullback and Fonotia and Thompson as wingers. I'm not sure how much freedom Razor will have in selection but ideally he'd jettison the two former players and have a really good look around for depth at 10 and fullback (is Midget Hunt really the answer?????), plus of course wingers. If we can't form a quality midfield next year out of the aforementioned quintet then we're screwed, and Razor isn't doing his job properly. I'm happy that Hall and Mo'unga will form a good partnership, the midfield should be exciting and a motivated Dagg gives us strike from at least one outside back position. Serviceable fellow squaddies include Drummond and Macilai. We need a 10, two wingers and a fullback or winger/fullback or 10/fullback.

SammyC

Get out and watch club rugby shark (the final is on today at rugby park) 
Every week Mitchell hunt is consistently a class above the other players on the park. I have big hopes for him in the future

African Monkey

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="601812" data-time="1469920414">
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Get out and watch club rugby shark (the final is on today at rugby park) 
Every week Mitchell hunt is consistently a class above the other players on the park. I have big hopes for him in the future
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Yeah still gutted he didn't stay with Auckland and the Blues. He's a far better prospect than Simon Hickey and Matt McGahan combined. 
 
Oh, and go New Brighton ;)

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="African Monkey" data-cid="601815" data-time="1469920772">
Yeah still gutted he didn't stay with Auckland and the Blues. He's a far better prospect than Simon Hickey and Matt McGahan combined. 
Oh, and go New Brighton ;)</blockquote>
 
C'mon Brighton! 
Sick of the students winning everything. The working class man deserves a break

African Monkey

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="601820" data-time="1469923867">
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C'mon Brighton! 
Sick of the students winning everything. The working class man deserves a break :)
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Well bloody said. Could be the last games for a lot of the Brighton stalwarts today so hopefully they can send them out as winners.

shark

The NPC will be a far better gauge re Hunt. Who's he signed to?

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="shark" data-cid="601837" data-time="1469925958">
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The NPC will be a far better gauge re Hunt. Who's he signed to?
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Pretty sure it's us. Hometown boy.

African Monkey

Yup signed to Ta$man for 3 seasons. Pretty sure he only signed to the Crusaders for this season so he may need a massive Mitre 10 cup to get another contract.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="African Monkey" data-cid="601843" data-time="1469926602">
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Yup signed to Ta$man for 3 seasons. Pretty sure he only signed to the Crusaders for this season so he may need a massive Mitre 10 cup to get another contract.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="601841" data-time="1469926361">
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Pretty sure it's us. Hometown boy.
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You know you'll be cheering him on in a Chiefs jersey next year.

shark

Nepia is probably right!

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="601846" data-time="1469927817">
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You know you'll be cheering him on in a Chiefs jersey next year.
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You guys already have too many midgets. :)

Brian9848

Stunned that Riach didn't sign Joe Schmidt when he had the opportunity and instead went with Razor. Coaching makes a huge difference in this game and Riach could have got one of the best.

nostrildamus

Yes Digby Ione played at 13 in 2009 I think and did really well there.

taniwharugby

history has shown that most players dont head south of the equator and retain/regain any sort of form they had in the NH or prior to leaving, there are always exceptions, so who knows if Digby will be the star signing he needs to be.
 
I think Macilai has gone backwards a long way since being with the Crusaders, even after his first season he came back to ITM Cup looking short of pace, possibly a few kg heavier, didnt look fat, just bigger (too many weights, not enough speed work or something?) and was very average for us last year and has been hot and cold when had his chances this season.

shark

He's only had two seasons at the Crusaders and the first was an injury write off. He's certainly never shown his electric 2014 NPC form in Super Rugby thus far, aside from the occasional glimpse. Maybe the Crusaders have stunted his growth. But maybe also he's just not up to it. Another season will tell the story but the jury is out at this stage.

taniwharugby

wasnt implying they had stunted his play, more that he hasnt kicked on like I expected he would in the environment.
 
He may not be up to it, but he needs to 1) get some regular and consistent chances and 2) actually do something with them..he has the skillset to make it, whether he has the right mindset to do so remains to be seen.

The Silver Fern

Crusaders 2016 and 2017