Crusaders 2016 and 2017
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="600089" data-time="1469426524">
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<p>I assume it's because he's from a tier one team while the others are tier two (as is Nadolo because the Aussies couldn't figure out how to make him work). And maybe Alaatoa is considered a Samoan by the NZR until such time as he dons a Wallabies jumper?</p>
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<p>How's that assumption apply to James Haskell?</p> -
<p>England were shit then, and Haskell was rubbish</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Wurzel" data-cid="600060" data-time="1469422235">
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<p>Don't the NZRU stipulate that the franchise must prove there isn't a better available player in that position before allowing an international to be signed to a NZ squad? I'd imagine that was a pretty easy argument for the Crusaders to make to the NZRU currently.</p>
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<p>We might know more after the NPC but right now there ain't a lot of Super Rugby hardened wingers running around uncontracted in New Zealand.</p>
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<p>Nice argument, except you don't get hardened unless you get a chance, and this creates one less chance for an NZ eligible player.</p>
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<p>The Saders inability to hold on to players (such as FWGJMN) shouldn't be a reason to get another outsider in and you're suggesting locking down one open spot with the Mitre 10 cup to come? WHat's the point of being good in that competition if there are no open Super spots to compete for?</p>
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<p>Rant approaching...</p>
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<p>I'm surprised that I'm the only one who thinks this is a stupid idea. There seems to be a kind of satisfaction from the Sader fans that bringing in an retired Aussie winger is step up for their team? I don't get how you (not exactly you Wurzel, the wider group) bag Todd Blackadder for his shitty selections then go gaga for a 31 year old who's most likely to be a failure anyway.</p>
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<p>The best case scenario is that he comes back as the 2011 version, but that was 6 years ago - when he was up against Hosea Gear (who was a <em>huge</em> success when he came back for the Chiefs), Sivi (long gone), Jane (the best argument for him, as he is older but also on the way out), and Kahui (same age, but also with dodgy shoulders).</p>
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<p>Plus, he's been playing for the <em>Heat</em> here, who are fucking <em>terrible</em>, and wikipedia tells me he didn't manage to score any points for them in one season.</p>
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<p>So, fucking great buy! </p>
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<p>They're mainly reasonable points GT12. The most surprising thing to me is that if he's available and good, that there's not Australian franchises queuing up to take him.</p>
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<p>On the face of it, I'm not that bothered about adding one Australian wing to our squads (to replace another), but it's a worrying trend at e.g. tighthead prop where, as I've pointed out before, there's a significant number of ineligible players been signed and occupying roles in matchday 23s. I'd say enough that it's potentially compromising our international strength.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Wurzel" data-cid="600118" data-time="1469434656">
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<p>The Highlanders have Tanaka, the Chiefs Leitch and the Blues Francis. Not sure the Crusaders are any more evil than what has become standard in NZ Super Rugby franchises.</p>
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IIRC, Francis' parents live in NZ, and he hasn't played international rugby. Not sure if he in NZ qualified though.</p>
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<p>Sa'u has played for Japan.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Wurzel" data-cid="600118" data-time="1469434656">
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<p>The Highlanders have Tanaka, the Chiefs Leitch and the Blues Francis. Not sure the Crusaders are any more evil than what has become standard in NZ Super Rugby franchises.</p>
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<p>Yeah they're not doing anything wrong, I think it's more to do with the fact that he's a (former) Wallaby international that people aren't happy about, where as if he were from somewhere else, no-one would care as much. As was mentioned, the Highlanders had Haskell for a season and there are plenty of Japanese players running around for our sides so I have no issue with it even if I don't think the signing will work out but you never know.</p> -
<p>This had better be a bloody rumour, highly unlikely he is going to be in the best form of his life.</p>
<p>We have had shit recruiting in the backs for years and if true it looks like its going to continue.</p>
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<p>Would rather they get some up and comers and invest in the future, could take a couple of years of misery if we are going to see something special in the future.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="600122" data-time="1469435798">
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<p>How reliable is <em>The Australian</em> as a source anyway? The whole discussion is based on rumours published in one paper.</p>
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<p>If it is anything like its political impartiality, not very. But there isn't much to choose from in Australia when it comes to rugby coverage in the MSM.</p> -
<p>Crusaders mediocrity in the backs continues!! An aging Ioane will add very little to an already stagnate backline!! I'm picking the Crusaders to be the bottom of the NZ conference next year by a wee way!!</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Wurzel" data-cid="600100" data-time="1469430274">
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<p>How's that assumption apply to James Haskell?</p>
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<p>I was only discussing those three players in particular. ;)</p>
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<p>Edit: Whoops,almost forgot - HB Rulz.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="600097" data-time="1469430162">
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<p>I know it's your favourite drum to bang, but Caleb Ralph was a good super winger. You don't score that many tries by standing around feeling your nuts. He probably deserved his AB cap too, just not as many as he got (but i can understand how he kept getting picked). </p>
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<p>Is this directed at me - or was I just the post above it? The only discussion I've had about Ralph lately was defending his ability as a centre when playing for the Maori and in his pre Crusader days for BoP and Auckland yet somehow I'm being targeted by disillusioned BoP and Crusaders fans. ;)</p> -
<p>Am I the only one that is pretty happy with the result of making the playoffs in our rebuilding year?</p>
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<p>Guess so. Yes we need some more fire power in the backs. But Dagg has found some form Mo'unga will take a lot from this season.</p>
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<p>I think Matt Todd missed a chance this season to step up. </p>
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<p>Over all I would give them a solid B. Lets hope Razor has some new ideas as the attack has gotten a bit predictable. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="600140" data-time="1469439758"><p>
Is this directed at me - or was I just the post above it? The only discussion I've had about Ralph lately was defending his ability as a centre when playing for the Maori and in his pre Crusader days for BoP and Auckland yet somehow I'm being targeted by disillusioned BoP and Crusaders fans. ;)</p></blockquote>
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Nah not you, there was a continuity error -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gt12" data-cid="600103" data-time="1469431278">
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<p>Nice argument, except you don't get hardened unless you get a chance, and this creates one less chance for an NZ eligible player.</p>
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<p>The Saders inability to hold on to players (such as FWGJMN) shouldn't be a reason to get another outsider in and you're suggesting locking down one open spot with the Mitre 10 cup to come? WHat's the point of being good in that competition if there are no open Super spots to compete for?</p>
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<p>Rant approaching...</p>
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<p>I'm surprised that I'm the only one who thinks this is a stupid idea.<strong> There seems to be a kind of satisfaction from the Sader fans that bringing in an retired Aussie winger is step up for their team?</strong> I don't get how you (not exactly you Wurzel, the wider group) bag Todd Blackadder for his shitty selections then go gaga for a 31 year old who's most likely to be a failure anyway.</p>
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<p>The best case scenario is that he comes back as the 2011 version, but that was 6 years ago - when he was up against Hosea Gear (who was a <em>huge</em> success when he came back for the Chiefs), Sivi (long gone), Jane (the best argument for him, as he is older but also on the way out), and Kahui (same age, but also with dodgy shoulders).</p>
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<p>Plus, he's been playing for the <em>Heat</em> here, who are fucking <em>terrible</em>, and wikipedia tells me he didn't manage to score any points for them in one season.</p>
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<p>So, fucking great buy! </p>
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<p>End rant.</p>
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<p>I'm not feeling that at all, and nor do I feel that vibe on this thread so I don't know what you're on about. I certainly don't see anyone going "gaga" over him, but don't let the truth get in the way of your average story.</p>
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<p>It's a dumb selection. He probably still shades Nafi Tuitivake, Keiron Fonotia and Rob Thompson as recent Crusaders wingers, but it's still a really poor selection. I'd rather we 'promoted from within' and went into 2017 with Macilai, Havili'i and Goodhue, possibly even Fifita. I fear if it's announced by the Crusaders, it's going to be termed the result of a "global search", which I can only assume Razor and Riach conducted with only access to a 2011 ARU Almanac while stealing wifi at a Honda dealership, but trapped on the company intranet.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Wurzel" data-cid="600118" data-time="1469434656"><p>The Highlanders have Tanaka, the Chiefs Leitch and the Blues Francis. Not sure the Crusaders are any more evil than what has become standard in NZ Super Rugby franchises.</p></blockquote>
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Nice narrative - it's against the Crusaders! <br><br>
This has got nothing to do with the Crusaders being 'evil' and everything to do with the development of local talent. <br><br>
I think I've been really clear about my thoughts on overseas players (even at the Chiefs), so where does this 'evil' us against the world attitude come from? <br><br>
To discuss your points though, I agree it's become standard and I think it's bad policy and oversight by the NZRU. As we've already talked about Leitch, I'd argue that if Francis isn't eligible for NZ or is not in the process of becoming eligible, he should not be offered a contract or on anyone's books either. And, even though you didn't bring him up, I don't think Sau should have been brought in either (Sunwolves, again).<br><br>
Tanaka is probably the only foreign player who I love and want to stay, just because he's awesome. And, I see your point in that 'everyone else is doing it, so why shouldn't we'. He's the best recent example I can think of (apart from Nadolo of course) of a non eligible player being really valuable. However, I'd also argue that the percentage of them actually turning out to be better than existing local options is actually not that good. From this year, I can think of four overseas eligible players brought in (Yamashita, Sau, Volavola, & Alaalatoa), none of whom have really been worth the effort. And, I'm really doubtful that Ioane has been saving his best form for the 2017 Crusaders - as I've expressed.<br><br>
So, despite the ongoing narrative that there is a bias against the Saders, I'm only interested in the debate about (a) whether this is potentially a good signing or not for the Crusaders and (b) for NZ rugby. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mooshld" data-cid="600143" data-time="1469440728">
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<p>Am I the only one that is pretty happy with the result of making the playoffs in our rebuilding year?</p>
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<p>Guess so. Yes we need some more fire power in the backs. But Dagg has found some form Mo'unga will take a lot from this season.</p>
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<p>I think Matt Todd missed a chance this season to step up. </p>
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<p>Over all I would give them a solid B. Lets hope Razor has some new ideas as the attack has gotten a bit predictable. </p>
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<p>The last point is a real unknown as while he hasn't done anything wacky with Canterbury's backs, he also hasn't needed to given the cattle at his disposal. But one has a suspicion that he might have the ability to manufacture a silk purse from a sow's ear: and he might just need to in 2017. One other real positive is we have a 2017 coach who has a massive opportunity to squeeze the crap out of every last bit of NPC squad talent in 2016 with an eye to bringing guys through for the Crusaders in 2017.</p>
