2016-2017 World Sevens Series
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@Snowy said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
Teams that are avoiding contact seem to be doing better because they don't run the risk of a legitimate turnover, or the ref making a mistake on side entry, holding on, etc. It is too much of a gamble to take the tackle so our old tactic of being bigger and stronger and dominating the breakdown, recycling, off loading, etc doesn't work.
THat is the key I think, teams avoiding contact, look at what Fiji did to us in the Olympics, despite them having some big bruisers, they still dont look for the contact to launch from, need to re-look at our touch skills and go from there.
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@taniwharugby said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
need to re-look at our touch skills and go from there.
It is a shame that it is going down that road, but true I reckon. Rugby should be a contact sport but the space available in sevens means that it is avoidable.
So are you going to call Scooter and let him know that we have it sussed or shall I?
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@Snowy said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@taniwharugby said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
need to re-look at our touch skills and go from there.
It is a shame that it is going down that road, but true I reckon. Rugby should be a contact sport but the space available in sevens means that it is avoidable.
So are you going to call Scooter and let him know that we have it sussed or shall I?
Good work boys. Now, any ideas on how to make the tournament not completely suck arse or should they just give up?
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@taniwharugby said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@Snowy said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
Teams that are avoiding contact seem to be doing better because they don't run the risk of a legitimate turnover, or the ref making a mistake on side entry, holding on, etc. It is too much of a gamble to take the tackle so our old tactic of being bigger and stronger and dominating the breakdown, recycling, off loading, etc doesn't work.
THat is the key I think, teams avoiding contact, look at what Fiji did to us in the Olympics, despite them having some big bruisers, they still dont look for the contact to launch from, need to re-look at our touch skills and go from there.
So, if rugby sevens is really turning into a limited-contact sport, then you don't really need the strong, big players anymore? Just fast, skillful and good decision makers?
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I'm inclined to reckon the tournament doesn't attract spectators because there's no one decent to watch on the field.
Gifford made this point in stuff and I'm finding it hard to counter. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/88834651/gifford-star-power-lacking-at-wellington-sevens
The rugby die hards will always go, so that's not the market you're chasing. Similarly the attention deficit disorder costume wearers will always go.
But if Jules Savea, Beaden Barrett and Ben Smith played (SBW wow!) then I reckon they'd flock in - well certainly get the fringe families and kids in.
EVERY highly patronised sports competition in the world uses star power to draw crowds. (Wiki, Menzies and Fittler at the 9's - why?)NZ 7's is at a bit of a disadvantage because the novelty has worn slightly and we're saturated with opportunities to see our star rugby players.
Need a crowd, get the stars I reckon
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@hydro11 said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
However, given that so many AB's aren't playing the 10's you simply aren't going to get them in to play 7's.
there is literally not one person on this forum who doesn't realise this - but thanks for pointing it out all the same
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@Siam said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
I'm inclined to reckon the tournament doesn't attract spectators because there's no one decent to watch on the field.
Gifford made this point in stuff and I'm finding it hard to counter. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/88834651/gifford-star-power-lacking-at-wellington-sevens
The rugby die hards will always go, so that's not the market you're chasing. Similarly the attention deficit disorder costume wearers will always go.
But if Jules Savea, Beaden Barrett and Ben Smith played (SBW wow!) then I reckon they'd flock in - well certainly get the fringe families and kids in.
EVERY highly patronised sports competition in the world uses star power to draw crowds. (Wiki, Menzies and Fittler at the 9's - why?)NZ 7's is at a bit of a disadvantage because the novelty has worn slightly and we're saturated with opportunities to see our star rugby players.
Need a crowd, get the stars I reckon
whadda ya mean by SBW wow?
I don't buy that argument at all. it was obviously pretty cool when Jonah and Cully made appearances but when Titch was 'unearthing' stars ( Victor Vito, Roy Kinikinilau etc ) as opposed to bringing in established ones there was still a fucken shitload of people in the crowd despite the average fan barely being able to name any NZ players.
The multitude of 'shit' games in a row has and will always be a factor but when Russia are busy trying to scrape by the might of China-Taipei that's the best opportunity to boof piss and perve at chicks, neither of which is an option cos of the fun police.
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@MN5
I think that now, in 2016 you need star appeal to run a decent sporting event.I do concede that 7s in NZ is ebbing after a long time in the spotlight but argue that the star power was there. Even Titch was a bit of a star and the players had profiles that were in the news regularly - DJ, Cama, Timmeh, Rushie. They were marketable stars and yes their success brought people in.
However this Wellington sevens thing has been fading for a while and there is lots of conjecture as to why (police, booze,fun, prices etc) and I submit that it lacks star power.
In a small country where rugby is king, there is little or no novelty left and little or no star attractions in my opinion.I come to this conclusion because I can't think of a wildly popular sporting comp that doesn't rely on star power.
Big Bash, Auckland Sheilas tennis tourney, (no idea who the men were), EPL (tribal support of a hometown my arse - it's more about the big names you can sign) IPL, Every American sports team, etc
Basically it's all about drawing people in by the players they'll watch and then after that, you run it economically, safely and enjoyably
But without the stars and the household names you ain't got nothing to work with. That's what I think keeps the crowds away in Wellington
edit: and I don't think it's possible to change (I think Martin Sneddon sees the same writing, well he should because I stole it from him!
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@Bones said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@MN5 Roy the star! Nice work there bro.
You know me pal
#livinginthepast
Was the fern around in 2002? If it was I bet everyone woulda talked him up cos he went the tried and tested route of playing sevens, getting 'poached' by 15s...but unlike others he seemed to vanish pretty quick.
Where did he go?
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@Siam said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@MN5
I think that now, in 2016 you need star appeal to run a decent sporting event.I do concede that 7s in NZ is ebbing after a long time in the spotlight but argue that the star power was there. Even Titch was a bit of a star and the players had profiles that were in the news regularly - DJ, Cama, Timmeh, Rushie. They were marketable stars and yes their success brought people in.
However this Wellington sevens thing has been fading for a while and there is lots of conjecture as to why (police, booze,fun, prices etc) and I submit that it lacks star power.
In a small country where rugby is king, there is little or no novelty left and little or no star attractions in my opinion.I come to this conclusion because I can't think of a wildly popular sporting comp that doesn't rely on star power.
Big Bash, Auckland Sheilas tennis tourney, (no idea who the men were), EPL (tribal support of a hometown my arse - it's more about the big names you can sign) IPL, Every American sports team, etc
Basically it's all about drawing people in by the players they'll watch and then after that, you run it economically, safely and enjoyably
But without the stars and the household names you ain't got nothing to work with. That's what I think keeps the crowds away in Wellington
Who's Timmeh????? ....and Cama could walk past lots of casual rugby fans without them having a clue who he is.
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@Siam said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@hydro11 said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
However, given that so many AB's aren't playing the 10's you simply aren't going to get them in to play 7's.
there is literally not one person on this forum who doesn't realise this - but thanks for pointing it out all the same
Well, in your first post you said that if they brought in the stars they would generate a crowd. There have been plenty of tournaments in Wellington without stars that sold out. There are currently plenty of tournaments around the world without stars which continually sell out.
The problem is not that there aren't stars playing sevens, it's that people don't really have an interest in sevens as a sport. You mention the IPL and EPL well those are massive competitions - obviously the big competitions are going to have the best players and have stars. A big competition is just going to create stars by virtue of being a big competition. The problem is that there just isn't a large market for sevens rugby. In New Zealand, the other 9 tournaments are all on the rugby channel.
Senatla, Baker, Serevi in his day - there have been plenty of stars of 7's rugby. The problem is that in New Zealand, there probably aren't 34,500 people who could pick Senatla out of a line up. It would be a bit like if we had a hurling match in New Zealand. No one here knows anything about hurling. They can bring all the stars out but if they aren't household names then who cares? I'm sure the world's best hockey player is probably some Australian and he probably comes here and plays all the time but most people couldn't care less.
Jonah, Cully, Savea and Barrett are stars in a different sport - rugby union. The trouble is that New Zealanders care a lot about rugby union. The problem is that sevens as a sport is subservient and inferior to rugby union. If sevens was to one day rival rugby union then Senatla would be making millions and it would be easy to market a tournament off of him. So you have to market the tournament as a fun, relaxed day out - which has been successfully done.
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@hydro11 said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@Siam said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@hydro11 said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
However, given that so many AB's aren't playing the 10's you simply aren't going to get them in to play 7's.
there is literally not one person on this forum who doesn't realise this - but thanks for pointing it out all the same
Well, in your first post you said that if they brought in the stars they would generate a crowd. There have been plenty of tournaments in Wellington without stars that sold out. There are currently plenty of tournaments around the world without stars which continually sell out.
The problem is not that there aren't stars playing sevens, it's that people don't really have an interest in sevens as a sport. You mention the IPL and EPL well those are massive competitions - obviously the big competitions are going to have the best players and have stars. A big competition is just going to create stars by virtue of being a big competition. The problem is that there just isn't a large market for sevens rugby. In New Zealand, the other 9 tournaments are all on the rugby channel.
Senatla, Baker, Serevi in his day - there have been plenty of stars of 7's rugby. The problem is that in New Zealand, there probably aren't 34,500 people who could pick Senatla out of a line up. It would be a bit like if we had a hurling match in New Zealand. No one here knows anything about hurling. They can bring all the stars out but if they aren't household names then who cares? I'm sure the world's best hockey player is probably some Australian and he probably comes here and plays all the time but most people couldn't care less.
Jonah, Cully, Savea and Barrett are stars in a different sport - rugby union. The trouble is that New Zealanders care a lot about rugby union. The problem is that sevens as a sport is subservient and inferior to rugby union. If sevens was to one day rival rugby union then Senatla would be making millions and it would be easy to market a tournament off of him. So you have to market the tournament as a fun, relaxed day out - which has been successfully done.
ok quite a lot to take in there so:
Name one successful ongoing tournament that doesn't have stars to draw people in or doesn't leverage those names in marketing. The type of people that draw in the curious, rather than the die hard fan.
What tournaments sold out without a Cully, Jonah or Rushie or even Victor? If there are some, that's great but the success of those sell outs was novelty factor and the success of the black team streets ahead of everyone except Fiji. That is no longer the case and I think a large part of it is there is no star appeal
We had an interest in sevens when Jonah and Cully and TeNana and Rushie played. We even rekindled an interest when SBW and Ardie and Bender were going to play - see where I'm going here? less than 6 months later we've got a nadir
Hydro I'm happy to be shown to be overstating the star appeal but everywhere I look I see normal people throwing their money and opinions at celebrity and star appeal and followings and endorsements.
Spectators pay to see something but overwhelmingly "someone"
Bet you a hypothetical tenner that if Beaudy, Ardie, Reiko and Jules play next year, the crowd doubles
I think it's vital for tournaments to succeed just like it is for concerts, books, plays, films and other public activities to succeed.
I also think it has ever been such for humans. Those huge crowds in the old days were for Snell and Meads and Hadlee and so on and so forth.
Bringing in Stars isn't viable so won't happen I guess but the Gifford article and the scathing of the 7s got me thinking about how much people flock to the people they deem to be stars. What's really the secret behind the mega tournaments or events. They sure as hell won't be running a no import BBL, IPL, EPL anytime soon
Christ there's so much hype in Aus for a fight between Green and Mundine. It'll be a shower of shit but people sure do love to dip into a pocket for a "star" experience
ps the bit about 7s not being rugby union and Barrett being in a different sport is puzzling
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@Siam said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@hydro11 said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@Siam said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@hydro11 said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
However, given that so many AB's aren't playing the 10's you simply aren't going to get them in to play 7's.
there is literally not one person on this forum who doesn't realise this - but thanks for pointing it out all the same
Well, in your first post you said that if they brought in the stars they would generate a crowd. There have been plenty of tournaments in Wellington without stars that sold out. There are currently plenty of tournaments around the world without stars which continually sell out.
The problem is not that there aren't stars playing sevens, it's that people don't really have an interest in sevens as a sport. You mention the IPL and EPL well those are massive competitions - obviously the big competitions are going to have the best players and have stars. A big competition is just going to create stars by virtue of being a big competition. The problem is that there just isn't a large market for sevens rugby. In New Zealand, the other 9 tournaments are all on the rugby channel.
Senatla, Baker, Serevi in his day - there have been plenty of stars of 7's rugby. The problem is that in New Zealand, there probably aren't 34,500 people who could pick Senatla out of a line up. It would be a bit like if we had a hurling match in New Zealand. No one here knows anything about hurling. They can bring all the stars out but if they aren't household names then who cares? I'm sure the world's best hockey player is probably some Australian and he probably comes here and plays all the time but most people couldn't care less.
Jonah, Cully, Savea and Barrett are stars in a different sport - rugby union. The trouble is that New Zealanders care a lot about rugby union. The problem is that sevens as a sport is subservient and inferior to rugby union. If sevens was to one day rival rugby union then Senatla would be making millions and it would be easy to market a tournament off of him. So you have to market the tournament as a fun, relaxed day out - which has been successfully done.
ok quite a lot to take in there so:
Name one successful ongoing tournament that doesn't have stars to draw people in or doesn't leverage those names in marketing. The type of people that draw in the curious, rather than the die hard fan.
What tournaments sold out without a Cully, Jonah or Rushie or even Victor? If there are some, that's great but the success of those sell outs was novelty factor and the success of the black team streets ahead of everyone except Fiji. That is no longer the case and I think a large part of it is there is no star appeal
We had an interest in sevens when Jonah and Cully and TeNana and Rushie played. We even rekindled an interest when SBW and Ardie and Bender were going to play - see where I'm going here? less than 6 months later we've got a nadir
Hydro I'm happy to be shown to be overstating the star appeal but everywhere I look I see normal people throwing their money and opinions at celebrity and star appeal and followings and endorsements.
Spectators pay to see something but overwhelmingly "someone"
Bet you a hypothetical tenner that if Beaudy, Ardie, Reiko and Jules play next year, the crowd doubles
I think it's vital for tournaments to succeed just like it is for concerts, books, plays, films and other public activities to succeed.
I also think it has ever been such for humans. Those huge crowds in the old days were for Snell and Meads and Hadlee and so on and so forth.
Bringing in Stars isn't viable so won't happen I guess but the Gifford article and the scathing of the 7s got me thinking about how much people flock to the people they deem to be stars. What's really the secret behind the mega tournaments or events. They sure as hell won't be running a no import BBL, IPL, EPL anytime soon
Christ there's so much hype in Aus for a fight between Green and Mundine. It'll be a shower of shit but people sure do love to dip into a pocket for a "star" experience
ps the bit about 7s not being rugby union and Barrett being in a different sport is puzzling
HK sells out every freakin year, and its not cheap. Same players as the rest of the tournaments.
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@Stargazer said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@taniwharugby said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
@Snowy said in 2016-2017 World Sevens Series:
Teams that are avoiding contact seem to be doing better because they don't run the risk of a legitimate turnover, or the ref making a mistake on side entry, holding on, etc. It is too much of a gamble to take the tackle so our old tactic of being bigger and stronger and dominating the breakdown, recycling, off loading, etc doesn't work.
THat is the key I think, teams avoiding contact, look at what Fiji did to us in the Olympics, despite them having some big bruisers, they still dont look for the contact to launch from, need to re-look at our touch skills and go from there.
So, if rugby sevens is really turning into a limited-contact sport, then you don't really need the strong, big players anymore? Just fast, skillful and good decision makers?
It does seem that way. There still has to be some balance of course. Mickleson is pretty good all round. There is still a place for Curry type players (if he could catch and hang on to the ball) but it's unlikely that anyone can field 7 Jonahs who had the speed and strength (perhaps not the ball skills but he didn't need to pass). So speed, ball skills, and agility seem to be the answer.
NZ have bemoaned the lack of speedsters for a while. Guys like Carlin Isles, Dan Norton, even Seabelo Senantla have become more the norm than bigger guys who contest. It removes risk of a turnover if you can just run away, have quick support for the pass or offload and avoid getting caught in possession.
As @taniwharugby says above even Fiji do it and they are big guys but also have all the skills to avoid a turnover.
I think our woman's team are actually more in tune with this than the blokes.
